10% Resistance is effectively 0% at low levels

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Omegamormegil
Posts: 5
Joined: July 7th, 2007, 10:08 pm

10% Resistance is effectively 0% at low levels

Post by Omegamormegil »

It's always bothered me that resistances such as 10% or 30% are less effective than they imply, except at high levels. I'll use the example of a dwarvish guardsman vs. Drake Fighter as a good illustration. The principal applies to other units and different resistance values as well.

For example, the dwarvish guardsman has 10% resist to fire, and the Drake Fighter has -10% resist to pierce. The resistance situation implies that the Dwarvish Guardsman would have something of an advantage using it's ranged attack but the listed resistances may as well be 0%, because there is no damage reduction for the dwarf, or damage increase to the Drake. Unless the attacker does 10 or more damage, 10% resistance does nothing, since fractions are ignored.

I don't know if this is intended, but I expect that it is not. In fact, the "Damage Calculation" screen still states that the attacks are being modified by the 10% resists, but this is misleading (see screenshot)

I would propose allowing 10ths of damage. ie a 5 piercing damage vs. a drake fighter would do 5.5 damage. 3 fire damage vs a Dwarf with 10% resistance would become 2.7 damage. This would make resistances actually have an effect at low levels. If there is objection to 10ths of damage, or if people don't like decimals, you could always multiply all HP and Damage by 10. This would have the same effect in causing 10 % resistance to do something, ie the dwarf would now be doing 50 damage normally, and the drake's negative resistance would increase the dwarvish attack to 55 damage. (Remember, the drake would have around 450 HP.)

I know both of these things would be somewhat big changes, but it's just silly to list resistances that usually do NOTHING.

What do you all think? Has this been mentioned before?

(EDIT: I was wrong about the unit stats, so I changed the example.)
Attachments
Here is the misleading Damage Calculation window.  Notice the strengths of the attacks are not affected at all.
Here is the misleading Damage Calculation window. Notice the strengths of the attacks are not affected at all.
Last edited by Omegamormegil on August 20th, 2008, 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Blarumyrran
Art Contributor
Posts: 1700
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Re: 10% Resistance is effectively 0% at low levels

Post by Blarumyrran »

oh? i thought it would currently round from 8.1 to 8 damage when attack does 9 dam and the victim has 10% resistance ...
[edit] tested it. yes, it rounds as it should. your numbers are wrong.


(btw saurians have 20% pierce resistance)

Omegamormegil
Posts: 5
Joined: July 7th, 2007, 10:08 pm

Re: 10% Resistance is effectively 0% at low levels

Post by Omegamormegil »

Thanks for the response! You are right, my numbers were wrong. I've provided a new, correct example, with a screenshot to better illustrate my point (and make me look like less of an idiot, hopefully :)

Please, take another look and tell me if you understand what I'm describing.

Jozrael
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Joined: June 2nd, 2006, 1:39 pm
Location: NJ, USA.

Re: 10% Resistance is effectively 0% at low levels

Post by Jozrael »

A: I understand what you're describing.

B: I don't think it's necessary. I like my low HP units: I've never liked games with hps in the hundreds generally. Too complicated (I don't have a problem with the calculations, its just creeping biggerism to me).

C: I think it introduces strategic versatility. A 10% weakness/resistance WILL have an effect on SOME damage amounts, but not all. I don't know where the cutoff is, but it's not that high (certainly not 10).

Omegamormegil
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Joined: July 7th, 2007, 10:08 pm

Re: 10% Resistance is effectively 0% at low levels

Post by Omegamormegil »

I agree with you in that I like keeping the numbers small. What about using a decimal, instead of rounding everything?

It just drives me nuts with I have a bunch of troops with a 10% resistance to piercing going up against a wall of spearmen, only to have the stated resistances do NOTHING for me, unless the spearmen have the strong trait.

I mean really, when you think about it, how often do units actually do over 10 damage in a normal game? With a few exceptions, most lvl 1 units do well under 10 damage per blow, negating any 10% resists.

Omegamormegil
Posts: 5
Joined: July 7th, 2007, 10:08 pm

Re: 10% Resistance is effectively 0% at low levels

Post by Omegamormegil »

Yes, the cutoff is 10 damage for 10% resist to have an effect. 10% of 9 is 0.9, which the game rounds down to 0. 10% of 10 is 1, which the game will count.

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markm
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Re: 10% Resistance is effectively 0% at low levels

Post by markm »

Sounds like keeping it simple offers two choices: truncation or rounding. Gamblers might like to put money on the hypothesis that much thought was invested in deciding which of the two to use, so rehashing the precise effects of one compared to the other for various specific units might simply be a re-check of arithmetic that was long ago already done?

-MarkM-
Developing Between the Worlds campaign portmanteau.
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Rex Umbrarum
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Re: 10% Resistance is effectively 0% at low levels

Post by Rex Umbrarum »

Omegamormegil wrote:Yes, the cutoff is 10 damage for 10% resist to have an effect. 10% of 9 is 0.9, which the game rounds down to 0. 10% of 10 is 1, which the game will count.
No, that's not true, it rounds it up to 1 as Syntax_Error said. the cut-off is 6.
vivantlingvaemortvae

Omegamormegil
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Joined: July 7th, 2007, 10:08 pm

Re: 10% Resistance is effectively 0% at low levels

Post by Omegamormegil »

Alright. Sorry for beating a dead horse.

Jozrael
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Location: NJ, USA.

Re: 10% Resistance is effectively 0% at low levels

Post by Jozrael »

Thank you for that explanation. I think that entirely sufficient and logical. Take for example the Cuttlefish with 3-10. Should a 10% resistance do the same as a 30% resist by making it 2-10? IMO, certainly not. That is because only .3 of a damage point is taken off with each strike. I think making 6 the cutoff point (.6 of a damage, rounding up to 1) is quite perfect.

Max
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Joined: April 13th, 2008, 12:41 am

Re: 10% Resistance is effectively 0% at low levels

Post by Max »

Rex Umbrarum wrote:No, that's not true, it rounds it up to 1 as Syntax_Error said. the cut-off is 6.
here's a thread with more details about how damage calculation is done:
How does damage calculation work?

since a lot of stuff is taken into consideration as well (like leadership, time of day) the real "cut-off" might be (on average) below 6. (or rather the rounding error)

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