Choose what scenario to play in Campaign Menu

Brainstorm ideas of possible additions to the game. Read this before posting!

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Forum rules
Before posting a new idea, you must read the following:
Mano
Posts: 3
Joined: May 6th, 2008, 11:25 pm

Choose what scenario to play in Campaign Menu

Post by Mano » May 6th, 2008, 11:35 pm

When you are in the Campaign Menu, for each campaign, you should be able to see wich scenarios you have completed (ant the next scenario to advance in the campaign), and you should be abe to play them.
One ideia to show the scenarios is to make a map of the campaign, and display the scenarios around the map.

One way for getting the starting units and gold in that scenario is to use the information that is stored in the saved game.
Another way is each scenario having a default level of gold and "recalled units".

Note that this functionality, is already possible using the load game, and choosing from the gigantic list of saved games.
The ideia is to display in a simple interface the scenarios that the user already played, and can repeat easily, choosing them from a map of all scenarios of that campaign, rather than searching the entire list of saved games.

What do you think of this ideia?

Greetings,
Adriano Simoes.

Sangel
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 2232
Joined: March 26th, 2004, 10:58 pm
Location: New York, New York

Re: Choose what scenario to play in Campaign Menu

Post by Sangel » May 7th, 2008, 4:23 pm

This is a good idea that would require some hard work and careful thought to come to fruition.
"Pure logic is the ruin of the spirit." - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

User avatar
Chris NS
Posts: 475
Joined: May 6th, 2006, 3:22 pm
Location: Where the Queen lives

Re: Choose what scenario to play in Campaign Menu

Post by Chris NS » May 7th, 2008, 6:33 pm

I've been doing this as a "cheat mode" for my campaign. The main problem is that it's actually a lot of work deciding on a default recall list for zipping straight to a particular scenario.

Best approach is that enough people say they'd find it useful, and ask nicely, a dev might look into it.

TheArchitect
Posts: 55
Joined: March 29th, 2008, 4:46 pm

Re: Choose what scenario to play in Campaign Menu

Post by TheArchitect » May 7th, 2008, 7:54 pm

I agree, it would definately make the game more convenient. I hate having to look through the list of saved games :D

PingPangQui
Posts: 267
Joined: July 18th, 2006, 11:52 am

Re: Choose what scenario to play in Campaign Menu

Post by PingPangQui » May 7th, 2008, 10:40 pm

I think this has been discussed before and people liked it as far as I can remeber (couldn't find it - hopefully the search function will be activated again), though noone implemented it yet as it seems.
The Clan Antagonist.

"Larry the Cow was a bit frustrated at the current state of Linux distributions (...) until he tried Gentoo Linux" - Free Software for free people.

User avatar
pauxlo
Posts: 1046
Joined: September 19th, 2006, 8:54 pm

Re: Choose what scenario to play in Campaign Menu

Post by pauxlo » May 7th, 2008, 10:56 pm

As I understand, this would be a filtered view of the load game dialog, listing only scenario-begin-saves ordered (or filtered) by campaign. Or did I misunderstood?

User avatar
shadowm
Site Administrator
Posts: 6545
Joined: November 14th, 2006, 5:54 pm
Location: Chile
Contact:

Re: Choose what scenario to play in Campaign Menu

Post by shadowm » May 7th, 2008, 11:11 pm

pauxlo wrote:As I understand, this would be a filtered view of the load game dialog, listing only scenario-begin-saves ordered (or filtered) by campaign. Or did I misunderstood?
That Can Already Be Done in 1.4.x. See this:
Attachments
cabd.png
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.

Sangel
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 2232
Joined: March 26th, 2004, 10:58 pm
Location: New York, New York

Re: Choose what scenario to play in Campaign Menu

Post by Sangel » May 8th, 2008, 6:02 am

Shadow Master wrote:That Can Already Be Done in 1.4.x. See this:
That's not exactly what's under discussion here, though I must say it's a very handy feature.

It's also possible to use WML in a campaign to allow the user to select different scenarios. I suppose the question is: Is there any way for a campaign to interact with saved files to detect which scenarios a user is "allowed" to play and/or load a save file (with recall list) instead of just a plain scenario file?
"Pure logic is the ruin of the spirit." - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

AI
Developer
Posts: 2394
Joined: January 31st, 2008, 8:38 pm

Re: Choose what scenario to play in Campaign Menu

Post by AI » May 8th, 2008, 12:54 pm

It would require a pretty radical departure of the current scenario/campaign system. Currently, the campaign file sets a few macros and gives control to the first scenario, the first scenario does its thing and gives control to the next scenario and so on. At any point in the campaign there is only one file in control and the campaign can branch or loop at any time. Even if you don't care about the army you're missing, you might still break scenarios by jumping right in, because you'll be missing variables or recruit options.

So, to do this, the entire campaign system would need to be overhauled OR the campaign should do so itself. (by giving you a menu to skip ahead in the first scenario)

User avatar
turin
Lord of the East
Posts: 11662
Joined: January 11th, 2004, 7:17 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Choose what scenario to play in Campaign Menu

Post by turin » May 8th, 2008, 7:44 pm

All you would really need to do is, when someone goes to the campaign screen and selects a campaign to play, it presents them with an option, before selecting difficulty level, of, "Start a new game or load save?", and if they select load save it goes to the loading menu with the campaign acronym being searched for. If you only want beginning-of-scenario saves to be accessible this way (which would make sense, I guess), you could do that too.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm

User avatar
ADmiral-N
Posts: 62
Joined: March 24th, 2008, 1:14 am
Contact:

Re: Choose what scenario to play in Campaign Menu

Post by ADmiral-N » May 8th, 2008, 8:13 pm

The scenarios would get unlocked just like the unit descriptions in the help section.
Subspace! Subspace is freeware and is the longest-running massively multiplayer internet space combat game in the world.

User avatar
turin
Lord of the East
Posts: 11662
Joined: January 11th, 2004, 7:17 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Choose what scenario to play in Campaign Menu

Post by turin » May 8th, 2008, 8:21 pm

ADmiral-N wrote:The scenarios would get unlocked just like the unit descriptions in the help section.
Well, that would clearly not work - you usually can't play the later scenarios in a Wesnoth campaign unless you've played the beginning scenarios and leveled at least a few units, gotten some gold, etc - how would being able to unlock a scenario itself, rather than a savegame, make any sense? It can work for games like Starcraft (where I've seen this type of thing used) because there's no carryover from scenario to scenario...
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm

User avatar
ADmiral-N
Posts: 62
Joined: March 24th, 2008, 1:14 am
Contact:

Re: Choose what scenario to play in Campaign Menu

Post by ADmiral-N » May 8th, 2008, 9:08 pm

turin wrote:Well, that would clearly not work
I thought it would work like this:
Mano wrote:Another way is each scenario having a default level of gold and "recalled units".
Although with the campaign system AI described, I see how this could turn out to be a problem. But then it's also worth a redesign - thinking with common sense, every scenario should be completely independent and playable with the help of a singe giant data blob created at the end of the previous scenario, which perhaps contains things like the recall list, story variables and flags etc. etc... And there is no reason why all these data could not be set to default values, like choosing the least exciting or "secret" story branch, fill the recall list with units you don't want (bad traits) to the extent needed, give only minimal gold and so on.

As for the existing campaigns, the scenario default values could be made entirely optional. If a campaign doesn't have them, simply grey out the "choose scenario" option. Mainline and other important campaigns could be slowly adapted to use the default values.

I think it would be a great feature to have.
The 1.4 version is still new and 1.6 is far away. The time to add such new features couldn't be better.
It gives you a feeling of accomplishment to see all the scenarios in a campaign unlocked.
You can show your unlocked list to your friends and brag about your save-load skills.
You can show the more awesome scenarios to friends who are new to Wesnoth.
You can enjoy the story again without having to beat all the early scens, and you can try to find all the secrets and story branches.
Scenario selection is separated from savegame selection, just like it should be. You don't want hundreds of campaign saves clutter up your load game dialog.
You can keep your unlocked scenarios between Wesnoth versions without running into savegame incompatibilities.
You can try and beat every scenario with the crappy default settings - on hard difficulty!
Subspace! Subspace is freeware and is the longest-running massively multiplayer internet space combat game in the world.

vicza
Posts: 238
Joined: January 16th, 2008, 11:40 pm
Location: Moscow

Re: Choose what scenario to play in Campaign Menu

Post by vicza » May 9th, 2008, 2:48 am

ADmiral-N wrote:You can enjoy the story again without having to beat all the early scens,
Story? Will there any story remain, if you can open scenarios in an arbitrary order.
The scenarios would get unlocked just like the unit descriptions in the help section.
BTW, I would be glad if this "description locking" would be removed.

User avatar
irrevenant
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 3692
Joined: August 15th, 2005, 7:57 am
Location: I'm all around you.

Re: Choose what scenario to play in Campaign Menu

Post by irrevenant » May 9th, 2008, 11:18 am

vicza wrote:BTW, I would be glad if this "description locking" would be removed.
So would a lot of people, but it's a contentious issue and majority Dev opinion (including Dave's) is that it should remain as is.

Post Reply