Statistics per unit

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ideans
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Statistics per unit

Post by ideans » May 3rd, 2008, 3:28 am

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irrevenant
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Re: Statistics per unit

Post by irrevenant » May 3rd, 2008, 4:13 am

I like the idea. That implementation won't work for lower resolutions, but IMO it's about time that we started using additional info (via a theme) at the resolutions that support it.

F50
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Re: Statistics per unit

Post by F50 » May 3rd, 2008, 7:18 pm

I like this idea a lot. The statistics menu doesn't really say anything (one can easily have horrible luck and have inflicted/taken +0%), it is much better for individual units. It also allows you to look at the luck of a leveled unit. This also allows you to deduce the chance of an enemy unit's lethal success postmortem.

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Re: Statistics per unit

Post by Lorbi » May 3rd, 2008, 8:32 pm

i don't see how this would help much. when it comes to probability and math things get more and more inaccurate the smaller numbers of actions you take into account.
a unit might have -100%taken and you still could have an overall very bad luck. it will only make think people in either one of those two ways:

A) Wow. this unit can't be hurt i will us it for this very risky attack over there.
B) that unit had so much good luck it will have very bad luck soon because things tend to even out.

-edit: i hope i dont' have to explain why bove are horribly wrong
-- ^ --

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pauxlo
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Re: Statistics per unit

Post by pauxlo » May 3rd, 2008, 8:42 pm

And, overall your surviving units will be those which had more luck than the dying ones.

Yoko
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Re: Statistics per unit

Post by Yoko » May 4th, 2008, 12:43 am

A) Wow. this unit can't be hurt i will us it for this very risky attack over there.
B) that unit had so much good luck it will have very bad luck soon because things tend to even out.
You are right, the feature would not really have any useful purpose.
However....
I think it would be more about just being fun. Isn't that what statistics is really about in Wesnoth, since the RNG takes care of everything statistics are just a bonus to have bragging rights or to survey the end of the battle. Wouldn't you like to attribute your victory to an extremely lucky unit that had a +40% damage ratio, to be able to say THIS unit's combat is one of the reasons you won?

I like the idea too

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irrevenant
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Re: Statistics per unit

Post by irrevenant » May 4th, 2008, 1:26 am

Lorbi wrote:i don't see how this would help much.
It personalises the unit a bit. I wouldn't mind seeing a list of kills there, either.

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Re: Statistics per unit

Post by Dave » May 4th, 2008, 5:32 am

I don't think you want this kind of thing displayed on the main screen. It would confuse ordinary users too much and most people don't really care about luck that much.

It would be nice to have unit histories to personalize units though. I would love a unit log like,

"Heldred was recalled on turn 4 of the Isle of Anduin. He fought in eight fights, took 24 damage, and inflicted 28 damage. He earned 28 experience points, and was promoted from spearman to swordsman."

...and so on.

David
“At Gambling, the deadly sin is to mistake bad play for bad luck.” -- Ian Fleming

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Neoskel
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Re: Statistics per unit

Post by Neoskel » May 4th, 2008, 5:35 am

It would be kinda cool to have a kill list too. i.e. a list of the names and types of what the unit killed. But probably not in the main interface.

F50
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Re: Statistics per unit

Post by F50 » May 4th, 2008, 7:39 pm

Lorbi wrote:i don't see how this would help much. when it comes to probability and math things get more and more inaccurate the smaller numbers of actions you take into account.
The statistics menu doesn't mean anything because 0% total luck can still be very bad luck depending on when that luck occurred and especially to whom. This is not about accuracy in determining the future, another feature takes care of that (damage calculations), this is about determining the past. Determining the past is more accurate the smaller numbers you take into account.
A) Wow. this unit can't be hurt i will us it for this very risky attack over there.
B) that unit had so much good luck it will have very bad luck soon because things tend to even out.
You don't have very high opinions of the intelligence of the masses. Such a person as would seriously say the above seriously needs to see a mathematician. I very much doubt this would lead to many people seriously being mislead.
irrevenant wrote:It personalises the unit a bit. I wouldn't mind seeing a list of kills there, either.
Good idea.
Dave wrote:I don't think you want this kind of thing displayed on the main screen. It would confuse ordinary users too much and most people don't really care about luck that much.
Again, I doubt it. I do happen to be very interested in luck in Wesnoth.

At very least the luckiness of a unit (-> individual skill of the unit) is a great addition to its history. I remember playing hotseat against a friend years ago. He had a fencer Karraynyn that survived ~3 turns with ~4 units attacking him until he was finally brought down. Recently, I had a Gryphon (Kuu, I believe) who slaughtered a Naga in the night while taking insignificant damage (~1 hit) and had similar luck throughout the game allowing him to level (the game wasn't that fun as the RNG totally made me win, but I remember the Gryphon).

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Viliam
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Re: Statistics per unit

Post by Viliam » May 4th, 2008, 8:41 pm

It would be nice to view detailed statistics/logs per unit, but I think the right place for this is after the scenario (also after multiplayer game), or through some submenu. Displaying information which does not influence player's strategy is IMHO wrong. Especially for new players, it is distracting. I would prefer to see only the information that I need to see. There is already too much relevant information.

Also I am afraid such statistics would just bring more people complaining that the random number generator is broken, and having a "proof" for it.


In the the unit log, I would like to see how many units of which type it has killed. Seeing that "this Elvish Commander has killed 5 Orcs, 3 Orcish Warlords, 13 Walking Corpses, and 4 Adepts" would make me proud. ;-)

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irrevenant
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Re: Statistics per unit

Post by irrevenant » May 4th, 2008, 9:40 pm

Viliam wrote:It would be nice to view detailed statistics/logs per unit, but I think the right place for this is after the scenario (also after multiplayer game), or through some submenu. Displaying information which does not influence player's strategy is IMHO wrong.
Okay, so how about a "Unit stats" button in the place where Ideans has put the actual stats?

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zookeeper
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Re: Statistics per unit

Post by zookeeper » May 4th, 2008, 9:48 pm

The "unit stats" would/should be an item in the context menu just like all the others (rename unit, unit description), not put in the right panel.

F50
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Re: Statistics per unit

Post by F50 » May 5th, 2008, 12:25 am

Viliam wrote:It would be nice to view detailed statistics/logs per unit, but I think the right place for this is after the scenario (also after multiplayer game), or through some submenu. Displaying information which does not influence player's strategy is IMHO wrong.
You are correct, all information on the sidebar is currently completely relevant to fighting, that is a good trend and should continue. To a submenu it should go.
Also I am afraid such statistics would just bring more people complaining that the random number generator is broken, and having a "proof" for it.
Then those can be answered. I fail to see why one should not implement a feature because of possible frivolous forum posts. That is like not using Linux because SCO is threatening to sue you.
In the the unit log, I would like to see how many units of which type it has killed. Seeing that "this Elvish Commander has killed 5 Orcs, 3 Orcish Warlords, 13 Walking Corpses, and 4 Adepts" would make me proud. ;-)
indeed.

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Sorrow
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Re: Statistics per unit

Post by Sorrow » May 5th, 2008, 7:03 am

People obsess over luck way too much as it is, I can imagine the boost in complaining this would cause.

Giving the units histories is a good idea though.
Let us all measure in milliyards, that way we can all get along.

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