Mainline - Default - Rebels - proposal to replace Mages?

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MDG
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Mainline - Default - Rebels - proposal to replace Mages?

Post by MDG »

Split the Sorceress branch off of the Shaman unit line, create a new first level unit for this split-off unit line, give it arcane ranged attacks with the magic attack special, make the entire new unit line Lawful, ditch the Mages from the rebel faction...

Could be High Elven as they are/were lawful and this branch was originally High Elven(?). Might need agreement from Turin and the IE team plus Jetryl (original creator of the High Elven units). Alternatively, just create a new Elven race to justify the Lawful alignment.

Might need to adjust HttT, possibly don't have this unit line available at first and add them when Kalenz shows up. Over time, the High Elves could be added into the HttT North Elves scenario.

Very dependent on whether the MP Devs are still interested in replacing the Rebel Mages in Default Era with a Lawful Elven unit line with the magic attack special and an attack type that is effective against Undead...

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Chris NS
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Re: Mainline - Default - Rebels - proposal to replace Mages?

Post by Chris NS »

Been proposed many times before, won't happen in mainline.

First of all, the multiplayer factions have no direct effect on sides in single player. If you were to replace the magi in the Rebels faction with high elves, lawful elves, or little blue men from Jupiter, there's no reason why you should change Heir to the Throne because a central part of the story is all sorts of peoples uniting against a common enemy: first elves, then Sir Kaylan's horsemen, then the mages of Alduin, then the mermen, then the dwarves, and finally the knights of the clans.

There are many reasons why replacing rebel mages in multiplayer won't happen, main one being that any change like this now would require a huge amount of rebalancing for no real benefit to gameplay. Humans in an elf-dominated faction may be slightly odd, but no more so than the arbitrary alliances between humans and mermen, elves and other mermen, dwarves and rogues, and drakes and saurians, and the consensus is that a mixture of races adds to the variety of the factions.

An elvish sorcerer line would be a good idea if anyone ever did a race-based era though. An era with balanced factions of elves-only, dwarves-only and so on would take a huge amount of work to do well, but it could work rather well if done right.

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Re: Mainline - Default - Rebels - proposal to replace Mages?

Post by megane »

Chris NS wrote:An era with balanced factions of elves-only, dwarves-only and so on would take a huge amount of work to do well, but it could work rather well if done right.
Actually, "racial" factions work fairly poorly. The reason there are Saurians in the Drake faction and outlaws in the Knalgans is so that, in cases where the predominant race would have problems, you have options; i.e. not every single unit in the faction is weak to pierce, or slow and bad in forests.
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MDG
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Re: Mainline - Default - Rebels - proposal to replace Mages?

Post by MDG »

Interesting. I've been under the impression that the reason for mixed race factions is gameplay driven from a combination of wanting/needing some mixed alignment factions and making sure each faction has a unit line that can operate on water terrain. Other than humans, each race tends to have a set alignment hence the need to vary the race-mix somewhat in order to get some mixed alignment factions.

@Chris NS. The proposal for replacing the Mage unit lines in the Rebels faction was not some random 'change the game for the sake of it' proposal. The MP devs had indicated previously that they wanted each faction to have unique units and were looking to replace the magi in the Rebels faction somehow. (I wish I could find the damn thread/post with this info. :evil: ) Hence, it was a proposal to deal with a specific 'problem' not an 'it'd be cool to add High Elves into default era' idea.

The comments on Heir to the Throne were an afterthought regarding the possible issue of whether this would mean the new unit line should/shouldn't be part of Heir to the Throne...

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Re: Mainline - Default - Rebels - proposal to replace Mages?

Post by Sangel »

The problem is that the factions are all pretty finely balanced right now. So, while replacing the Rebel's Mage with a different unit might be nice, the replacement unit would have to be extremely similar to preserve faction balance. And if it's extremely similar, then it's a lot of effort for little reward.
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lastdragon
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Re: Mainline - Default - Rebels - proposal to replace Mages?

Post by lastdragon »

i agree sangel but that will change the balance :hmm: default will be unbalanced then

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Re: Mainline - Default - Rebels - proposal to replace Mages?

Post by Noy »

MDG

You are right, part of the reason is to break up factions so that they are not uniracial. A secondary reason is to maintain a bit of continuity with HttT. There already is a Elvish mage, the Slyph, that is in EE, but it will not be changed in Default for the above reasons. No need to continue this conversation...

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