Reviving experienced units for gold

[Mutxiko]

I have had a look on most of this forum's topics, and I haven't seen any proposal for a reviving system for leveled units. Maybe this is completely stupid and not realistic, but a level 2/3/4 unit could be revived after it dies in combat, for a large amount of gold. I think about this for too often in campaigns I don't dare to use efficiently my level 3 units, because I always imagine they will quickly die !
Maybe revived units could "lose one level" as a handicap ?

[mlangsdorf]

50 gold and lose a level? I think it's a neat idea, and takes the sting out of some of the harder levels.

[cobretti]

The main point of the game is to be levelling units mostly all the time, not making a RPG party and bringing them everywhere. As many people would tell here, units are expected to die.

Try to use your levelled units to protect some fresh level 1 units, and level them with killing blows. You will quickly find yourself with a big army of level 2-3 units, while affording gold.

[Elvish_Pillager]

The main point of the game is to be levelling units mostly all the time, not making a RPG party and bringing them everywhere. As many people would tell here, units are expected to die.

The one exception here is Iron Maulers and healers. The maulers are too tough to die easily and can be retreated, and the healers stay behind the lines where they don't die.

[miyo]

I don't like it. Now you have to earn gold and experience, seperately... in your suggestion gold "replaces" earning experience (and continuous training new units project). Gold is there for recruiting and recalling, that is enough uses for gold.

In war, people die.

- Miyo

[Roel]

or if you pay 500 gold you can finish the game without having to play all those scenarios

[/sarcasm]

[Dave]

or if you pay 500 gold you can finish the game without having to play all those scenarios

[/sarcasm]

Ummm...sure, if someone makes a donation of 500 pieces of pure gold to the Wesnoth development team, we will declare them winner of the game without having to play any scenarios

David

[Jetrel]

... sneezes 500 atoms of gold in the direction of texas.

"I win!"

[Elvish_Pillager]

... sneezes 500 atoms of gold in the direction of texas.

"I win!"

...after which a chorus of sneezes is heard.

[Mutxiko]

I don't like it. Now you have to earn gold and experience, seperately... in your suggestion gold "replaces" earning experience (and continuous training new units project). Gold is there for recruiting and recalling, that is enough uses for gold.

In war, people die.

- Miyo

Indeed, people die. However, as BfW has some distant legacy from Tolkien's world (he gived new and popular meanings for Elves (Quendi), Orcs, Goblins, ...), we could consider the whole "mythology" and context of these books : people who die (at least, Elves) go to the Halls of Mandos in Aman, and are still alive... Some of them, like Gandalf (as a Maia) or Glorfindel , even return to the battle in Middle-Earth. It would NOT be unrealistic, then [ what is unrealistic in fantasy worlds ? ], to implement a SLOW and expensive processus of recalling of the "dead". Just think about Warcraft III and the Altars for Heroes... Maybe something else than gold should be needed, something like the mobilization of some units or of the Leader in kind of a prayer of recalling for SOME TURNS... [ I know it may look really weird ]

Tell me if you think it is not simple enough, I often have complicated, useless ideas !

[Dave]

Maybe something else than gold should be needed, something like the mobilization of some units or of the Leader in kind of a prayer of recalling for SOME TURNS...

Why not just get 1st level units that are still alive and try to level them up to replace the units you lost?

David

[Elvish_Pillager]

Maybe something else than gold should be needed, something like the mobilization of some units or of the Leader in kind of a prayer of recalling for SOME TURNS...

Why not just get 1st level units that are still alive and try to level them up to replace the units you lost?

David

Or save/load until they they don't?

[quartex]

Or save/load until they they don't?

That's my favorite tactic. It doesn't cost me any money. Just lots of time. Oh well.

[Jetrel]

Or save/load until they they don't?

That's my favorite tactic. It doesn't cost me any money. Just lots of time. Oh well.

dang, whaddaya know, me too.

Wesnoth is a game of skill up to a certain point, after which skill is meaningless, and plain old dumb luck is all that matters.
I don't like that, for the same reason I don't like Roulette.


I would give civilization as an example of a well-balanced turn-based strategy game. Civilization's cities are like Wesnoth's high-level units. You put a lot of time into them and it really irritates you when you lose them. It's ok if you lose them in an obvious bout of bad strategy (eg. I only had one guy defending that city, they suprise attacked, I lost. Fair is fair). But it's just not fun when you lose them - intact and in good terrain, etc, when your strategy is good.

When you are good at the game, and playing on the easiest difficulty level, unless you do something idiotic, you should have a cakewalk. (Likewise the most difficult level should be a struggle just to survive.)
Nothing you put time into should collapse, really. It's just not fun, because unlike civilization, you have no way of getting those things back.
Civilzation, you can just conquer your city back - a bit of a setback, but not an utter ruin.

People say that wesnoth need not be realistic, that we strive for gameplay value. Then guys like Miyo say "Hey, this is war, people die."

Well, gee, there's a kick in the sack for my gameplay, right there, to say nothing about the inherent contradiction of the previous paragraph. Everything else about the game is great, and to correct that one fault, I have to cheat. This game has a lot going for it, but that basic fault of gameplay really mars it.



That whole "Altar of Heroes" bit in Warcraft may be tacky, but it's a damned work of genius for gameplay.

[Jetrel]

Here's an idea.
1] We have magic in this game, magic that can make an eviscerated near-corpse turn back to a healthy, happy member of an army.

2] Also, note that in war, most deaths on the battlefield happen some hours after the unit is felled. There are certainly cases where people die in a few minutes from something like getting your head cut off or a knife through the heart, but most battlefield deaths are due to losing something not immediately vital.

You could probably go a few days without most of your organs, provided you weren't bleeding (people usually are bleeding for some *odd* reason, which shortens this to several hours).

3] So, the fact that scenarios take days be damned, I think it would fit with the game world to be able to resurrect characters that died on the previous level. I think the resurrected unit should suffer some permanent penalty, and that certain units should be required for the player to be able to do this do this.

For the humans, white mages, For elves, druids, undead- liches, including level-3 gwiti. For Orcs, uh.... dunno yet. A higher level of that shaman unit?

As for the "permanent penalty," I think a simple hit point reduction might work, say 5%, and I think it should be more expensive, though not by a lot, than recall.