Era with 2x the stats of default
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Era with 2x the stats of default
Just a thought that's a little weird:
levelling grants you benefits for sure, but the benefits are not usually doubled. With characters going from 1-2, their detriments are all doubled. Detriments include:
upkeep
xp given
-and that's about it.
Although not enough to outweigh their advancement, some oddities do arise from this situation. To possibly address this I thought: well why not just double the unit's xp to level and make recruitable's start at L2? Then xp and upkeep only has a 50% increase. Of course, with this idea village income would need to be increased as well.
I got to thinking: why not just double ALL stats? This would mean damage (not strikes), and hp in addition to xp (not moves). More variation could be given between units then. Instead of trying to decide if your melee class unit will be 10-2, 7-3, or 5-4 (or thereabouts), you could decide from 20-2, 13-3, 10-4, 8-5, 7-6. Resistancies would have an effect in situations where sometime they did not (10% resists on 5 or less most notably), and TOD wouldn't be such a big deal from 6 damage to 7 damage (strong gives double the bonus to a clasher at day).
It would essentially play EXACTLY like default. This is NOT a "luck correcting suggestion." This would simply be an era that would allow more variability between unit stats to allow for more novelty and uniqueness. There's more "fudge room."
The other neat side effect (if you want to keep units at 2x upkeep costs at level) is you could make L2s level into L4s, and you can have less combat oriented units (like the footpad or augr) level into L3s perhaps. ---This is all just fudgable, but that's kindof the point, to allow more fudgability.
Now, you may be wondering why I'm thinking about doing this since none of the mainline stats would effectively change....the answer lies in custom eras. Right now it's hard to come up with stats that don't already mirror 1 or more mainline units. That's rather disappointing to me. Custom eras are meant to be unique, and the best way currently to do that is by coming up with cool new abilities to use. Well, that takes coding, and in the case of some of the more developed RPG type games, severe load on the server.
Anyway, it would be a relatively simple, though time consuming, job to create, but I think it would be a neat idea. Also, if it would be possible to give level 1 units no ZOC you could actually make bats, goblins, and WCs effectively "half a unit" instead of "nothing of a unit" with respect to upkeep and xp.
Just a thought. I may or not forget this idea entirely, or perhaps code it myself.
levelling grants you benefits for sure, but the benefits are not usually doubled. With characters going from 1-2, their detriments are all doubled. Detriments include:
upkeep
xp given
-and that's about it.
Although not enough to outweigh their advancement, some oddities do arise from this situation. To possibly address this I thought: well why not just double the unit's xp to level and make recruitable's start at L2? Then xp and upkeep only has a 50% increase. Of course, with this idea village income would need to be increased as well.
I got to thinking: why not just double ALL stats? This would mean damage (not strikes), and hp in addition to xp (not moves). More variation could be given between units then. Instead of trying to decide if your melee class unit will be 10-2, 7-3, or 5-4 (or thereabouts), you could decide from 20-2, 13-3, 10-4, 8-5, 7-6. Resistancies would have an effect in situations where sometime they did not (10% resists on 5 or less most notably), and TOD wouldn't be such a big deal from 6 damage to 7 damage (strong gives double the bonus to a clasher at day).
It would essentially play EXACTLY like default. This is NOT a "luck correcting suggestion." This would simply be an era that would allow more variability between unit stats to allow for more novelty and uniqueness. There's more "fudge room."
The other neat side effect (if you want to keep units at 2x upkeep costs at level) is you could make L2s level into L4s, and you can have less combat oriented units (like the footpad or augr) level into L3s perhaps. ---This is all just fudgable, but that's kindof the point, to allow more fudgability.
Now, you may be wondering why I'm thinking about doing this since none of the mainline stats would effectively change....the answer lies in custom eras. Right now it's hard to come up with stats that don't already mirror 1 or more mainline units. That's rather disappointing to me. Custom eras are meant to be unique, and the best way currently to do that is by coming up with cool new abilities to use. Well, that takes coding, and in the case of some of the more developed RPG type games, severe load on the server.
Anyway, it would be a relatively simple, though time consuming, job to create, but I think it would be a neat idea. Also, if it would be possible to give level 1 units no ZOC you could actually make bats, goblins, and WCs effectively "half a unit" instead of "nothing of a unit" with respect to upkeep and xp.
Just a thought. I may or not forget this idea entirely, or perhaps code it myself.
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irrevenant
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Presumably you would double the rate of healing from 8 to 16 too?
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CarpeGuitarrem
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Surely that can be gotten around with WML? Like, you check to see if a unit is poisoned, and then dock off more HP.
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Aethaeryn
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I agree, hardcoding undead/mechanical is bad too as the Vampires in EoM should be undead except poisonable.megane wrote:One more argument for NHCAE -- Never HardCode Anything, Ever.
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Indeed. And yes, I would agree with that acronym.Aethaeryn wrote:I agree, hardcoding undead/mechanical is bad too as the Vampires in EoM should be undead except poisonable.megane wrote:One more argument for NHCAE -- Never HardCode Anything, Ever.
What do people think of the idea though? Assuming that yes, healing (and posion) and trait effects would be doubled as well.
Indeed, yet I don't personally have the time to do it at this point in time.cool evil wrote:This would be very much doable, you can change how much a unit heals or poisons per round all in WML, and you can also manually change their levels and stats, its all very basic stuff really.
I'm really glad you guys like it though.
You can increase village income, but can you increase village upkeep reduction? (There's a difference because upkeep can't be reduced below 0.)
This could just be another case of NHCAE, though.
Of course, as soon as you do this, you've already done 90% of the work of a "luck correcting" era; it's dead certain that someone will do the other 10% and restore the normal damage with double swing count instead. Heck, I might do it myself, just to play with it.
It'd be possible to create a No Rounding Era, but you'd need a much higher multiplier than 2. I think 160x would do it, allowing units to always deal even integral damage so that the ones with drain can always drain back integral amounts. Villages would heal a mere 1280 hp per turn (out of a HI's base of 6080, not counting traits). An Ancient Wose would have 12800 hp and regenerate 1280 per turn... but not to worry, a Great Mage will do 3840-4 to it regardless of ToD, while taking a mere 5000-2 from the wose's attack in daylight. With 10400 HP, he'd be guaranteed to survive, barely, just as he is now.
If NHCAE had actually been followed, that'd all be doable in era WML, but it's not.
This could just be another case of NHCAE, though.
Of course, as soon as you do this, you've already done 90% of the work of a "luck correcting" era; it's dead certain that someone will do the other 10% and restore the normal damage with double swing count instead. Heck, I might do it myself, just to play with it.
Except the ones currently affected by rounding issues. Resistances, leadership, ToD... I'm assuming you would double strong/dextrous, to keep them the same relative size difference as now. So instead of the daytime clasher/strong daytime clasher being 7-4/9-4, they'd be 15-4/17-4 (I think). Now day doesn't increase the strong bonus at all... because of the weird rounding going on here, 125% of 1 is 2, but 125% of 2 is still 2.Now, you may be wondering why I'm thinking about doing this since none of the mainline stats would effectively change....
It'd be possible to create a No Rounding Era, but you'd need a much higher multiplier than 2. I think 160x would do it, allowing units to always deal even integral damage so that the ones with drain can always drain back integral amounts. Villages would heal a mere 1280 hp per turn (out of a HI's base of 6080, not counting traits). An Ancient Wose would have 12800 hp and regenerate 1280 per turn... but not to worry, a Great Mage will do 3840-4 to it regardless of ToD, while taking a mere 5000-2 from the wose's attack in daylight. With 10400 HP, he'd be guaranteed to survive, barely, just as he is now.
If NHCAE had actually been followed, that'd all be doable in era WML, but it's not.
I actually think dealing with bigger numbers in general would be cool - yes, even if they were in the thousands.
Of course that's probably taking a step too far, but the higher the number the greater the amount of possible customization. Swings would have to be kept at a low number still, as attack animations could take way too long.
And yes, the traits and stuff would be scaled as well. (if possible (village heals and reduced income, etc))
Of course that's probably taking a step too far, but the higher the number the greater the amount of possible customization. Swings would have to be kept at a low number still, as attack animations could take way too long.
And yes, the traits and stuff would be scaled as well. (if possible (village heals and reduced income, etc))
I really like it too.
I've always had a problem with how granular wesnoth was, as it oddly distorts a lot of effects. Leadership, for example, gives anything from 20-something to 33%. This would not solve that, but would considerably take the edge off it. (The "solution" would be just going to floating-point values for all this stuff, wherein a unit actually could have, say, 2.5 hitpoints. With floating-point values, which would require code changes, we could actually get effectively exact applications of percentage modifiers.)
I've always had a problem with how granular wesnoth was, as it oddly distorts a lot of effects. Leadership, for example, gives anything from 20-something to 33%. This would not solve that, but would considerably take the edge off it. (The "solution" would be just going to floating-point values for all this stuff, wherein a unit actually could have, say, 2.5 hitpoints. With floating-point values, which would require code changes, we could actually get effectively exact applications of percentage modifiers.)
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Angry Andersen
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I'm not really convinced of this idea. The rounding-effects have never bothered me so much that I thought that this really needs fixing.
On the other side, doubling all numbers makes it harder to remember unit stats and do calculations in your head. And I doubt that the possibilities of making new unique units are vastly increased by allowing for finer steps in their stats. Basically that is just a way of blurring things.
On the other side, doubling all numbers makes it harder to remember unit stats and do calculations in your head. And I doubt that the possibilities of making new unique units are vastly increased by allowing for finer steps in their stats. Basically that is just a way of blurring things.