Quicker game mechanics

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TruePurple
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Quicker game mechanics

Post by TruePurple » January 10th, 2008, 9:58 am

What do do while waiting for another persons turn, you can examine units. You can see their movement path radius of one turn. Great! (it really is, since a number of other games don't even allow you that) But perhaps it can be improved?

1.a How about allowing people to set movement path of units during another persons turn? If the path then becomes invalid because of moved units then its not used. Just like it does otherwise. This would also allow players to easily assess how many turns it will take for X unit of theres to reach a spot. (its biggest use since a changed board will probably invalidate most moves) Also talked about here.

1.b As well or alternatively, some method of clicking on a unit, friend or foe, then moving to a spot and seeing turns it would take and perhaps defensive values too of various spots it might reach. Hopefully during other peoples turns as well. Would make assessing things easier rather then having to memorize terrain movement of different units, count spaces and memorize unit defensive numbers for different terrains.

2. How about being allowed to que for unit production for gold you already have during someone elses turn? When your turn comes the units could appear all at once (you can change it before then if you change your mind) This would also allow a person to examine the unit list if they aren't as familar with it too.

3. How about allies being able to move at the same time? I'm not sure the technical difficulties of it. But if it could be done it would be a great time saver for allied games.(nearly cut the time in half, or better if say 3 vrs 3) And since your not going to attack your allie no issues of "fast clicking" which does exist in other games that have simultaneous turns. As well no issues of zone of control with a allie (yes I know this has been discussed before, but not for allied games as far as I know)
Last edited by TruePurple on January 10th, 2008, 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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thespaceinvader
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Post by thespaceinvader » January 10th, 2008, 10:05 am

1b: It has always been possible to see the terrain defence values for a selected unit on a slected tile. it shows in the top right of the screen, in brackets. In the dev version, pressing a number key will extend he highlighted move range to how far that unit can move in that number of turns, assuming nothing else on the board changes.

As for the rest, i'm no coder, so i don't know for certain, but it would shock me if doing much more than highlighting a unit and showing its terrain defence were easily possible in a turn not your own - the game mechanic is based on turns. Being able to make (or queue up) your move during the enemy turn is kind of counter-intuitive. Plus, it does raise issues with whether you'd really want to make moves during enemy turns. Aside from isolated cases where i have a huge army to manoeuvre across a basically empty battlefield to reach the front line, i wouldn't want to move or queue a move until it was my turn...

I recognise, though, that the game can be a little on the slow side, particularly during large engagements. It's a difficult issue to fix.
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irrevenant
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Re: Quicker game mechanics

Post by irrevenant » January 10th, 2008, 10:11 am

TruePurple wrote:1.a How about allowing people to set movement path of units during another persons turn? If the path then becomes invalid because of moved units then its not used. Just like it does otherwise. This would also allow players to easily assess how many turns it will take for X unit of theres to reach a spot. (its biggest use since a changed board will probably invalidate most moves) Also talked about here.
This doesn't seem very useful. For units that are close into the fighting, any move you make will be obsoleted during your opponent's turn. For units that are a long way from the fighting, you've probably already set a multi-turn move for them.
TruePurple wrote:1.b As well or alternatively, some method of clicking on a unit, friend or foe, then moving to a spot and seeing turns it would take and perhaps defensive values too of various spots it might reach. Hopefully during other peoples turns as well. Would make assessing things easier rather then having to memorize terrain movement of different units, count spaces and memorize unit defensive numbers for different terrains.
Same thing. If he's moving a long distance you probably already set him doing that during your turn.
TruePurple wrote:2. How about being allowed to queue for unit production for gold you already have during someone elses turn? When your turn comes the units could appear all at once (you can change it before then if you change your mind) This would also allow a person to examine the unit list if they aren't as familiar with it too.
This is not a bad idea. I don't know if it would be useful often enough to be worth the effort, though.
TruePurple wrote:3. How about allies being able to move at the same time? I'm not sure the technical difficulties of it. But if it could be done it would be a great time saver for allied games.(nearly cut the time in half, or better if say 3 vrs 3) And since your not going to attack your allie no issues of "fast clicking" which does exist in other games that have simultaneous turns. As well no issues of zone of control with a allie (yes I know this has been discussed before, but not for allied games as far as I know)
That's a really interesting idea. I don't think anyone's suggested ally-only simultaneous turns before. I wouldn't get my hopes up, 'cos it's kind of off in left field and the Devs are all busy, but it is interesting.

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Post by TruePurple » January 10th, 2008, 10:13 am

Well like I said, the movement queing would be mostly for seeing the unit pathing (see 1.b) But occassionally it does arise where you know for sure a unit is going somewhere (say retreating to heal to a village or a slow unit making its way to the front lines, other examples too) Not to mention if coupled with unit queing it would make those first two turns of making and moving units to villages go by fast. (since your not going to encounter the enemy then, unless the maps badly designed)

The movement queing itself allows you to que distance for a number of turns. I'd just like it to allow you to do so during another persons turn as well.

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JW
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Post by JW » January 10th, 2008, 10:16 am

Who would move which allies' troops? All 3 players? What if they simultaneously move to the same hex?

No, this isn't going to happen.

Other ideas I won't comment on.

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Post by TruePurple » January 10th, 2008, 10:18 am

Same thing. If he's moving a long distance you probably already set him doing that during your turn.
1.b is about information. Will that enemy be able to make it to X square by X time? Or a friendly unit for that matter. Well I'd like to be able to have a way to assess that during a opponents turn. When I said "move to a spot" I meant move the cursor to a spot. Sorry about the confusion.
Last edited by TruePurple on January 10th, 2008, 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by TruePurple » January 10th, 2008, 10:26 am

JW wrote:Who would move which allies' troops? All 3 players? What if they simultaneously move to the same hex?
I don't understand your first question. You would move your own troops. Not anyone elses. Just at the same time as your allies. And just like any simultanious move turn game it would be processed according to who chooses what first. If 3 allies arent going to move to the same square at the exact same microsecond. Even if they did the game could use some arbitrary decidng factor to decide priority. (like players order in list or something)

Of course I would expect allies to communicate better then that anyways. It is in their best interest.

I play age of wonders shadow magic. Lots before finding this game (afterwards, we shall see) All online games are done simultaneous, or nearly. Takes too long otherwise. (but its battles are more involved so its needed)

The point is that it works. The only issue is fast clicking when facing a enemy. But the game works out fine for say clicking on the same square at roughly the same time etc. for allies. Its just not a issue then.(or very rarely, and even then the game doesn't implode or anything, it just sorts it out. One person moves and the other persons move command is invalidated because theres already someone there)

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Post by zookeeper » January 10th, 2008, 10:31 am

TruePurple wrote:
Same thing. If he's moving a long distance you probably already set him doing that during your turn.
1.b is about information. Will that enemy be able to make it to X square by X time? Or a friendly unit for that matter. Well I'd like to be able to have a way to assess that during a opponents turn. This reply makes me feel you didn't read it properly.
thespaceinvader wrote:1b: It has always been possible to see the terrain defence values for a selected unit on a slected tile. it shows in the top right of the screen, in brackets. In the dev version, pressing a number key will extend he highlighted move range to how far that unit can move in that number of turns, assuming nothing else on the board changes.
Select your own unit or hover over an enemy unit, and press (and hold) a number key. The highlighted area showing the movement range will change to show the maximum movement range during the number of turns you choose.

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Post by TruePurple » January 10th, 2008, 10:37 am

Oh, sorry. OK. A movement path during anothers turn would be helpful too though.

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Re: Quicker game mechanics

Post by anakayub » January 10th, 2008, 11:01 am

TruePurple wrote:2. How about being allowed to que for unit production for gold you already have during someone elses turn? When your turn comes the units could appear all at once (you can change it before then if you change your mind) This would also allow a person to examine the unit list if they aren't as familar with it too.
Good idea, but the prob is implementation. At what stage is your queue going to be confirmed? 1st thing at your turn? The problem is that a lot of times you'd like to resurvey your situation before confirming. It reduces micromanagement, but I think it's essential, like the argument for manually handling shroud updates.
3. How about allies being able to move at the same time? I'm not sure the technical difficulties of it. But if it could be done it would be a great time saver for allied games.(nearly cut the time in half, or better if say 3 vrs 3) And since your not going to attack your allie no issues of "fast clicking" which does exist in other games that have simultaneous turns. As well no issues of zone of control with a allie (yes I know this has been discussed before, but not for allied games as far as I know)
I think the major problem is network lag related. Sometimes network lag can cause input/output to be sent simultaneously instead of in series should allies be allowed to move together, causing nasty OOS errors. Soliton would know better about this though. But I like moving 1 player at a time TBH, as its simple.
Take a breath.

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Post by TruePurple » January 10th, 2008, 11:28 am

anakayub wrote:Good idea, but the prob is implementation. At what stage is your queue going to be confirmed? 1st thing at your turn? The problem is that a lot of times you'd like to resurvey your situation before confirming.
What about a hotkey command you execute that causes you to produce all units you have qued. Like pressing q or shift Q to execute que. That way you can make changes for a spot before executing if something has changed. It would definitely make that first turn go by fast. Just like qued movement would make the second turn go by fast. (you could use a hot key for that too)

Qued unit and qued movement would have uses in other situations too. Sometimes you just know where your going to move something or make something. And with it triggerable by hot key then one could micromanage if they wish right up to and onto their next turn.

Whats OOS and TBH stand for? It wasn't listed on the acronym page.

Couldn't there be a simple set of rules for the software if by chance it receives a signel at the exact same time? Like order of player on list or something to decide priority?

Also we'd experience lag lots of times with age of wonders and its never been a issue with simultaneous clicks under simultanous turns. But then it is a different game. We direct connect to each other and don't use a server for example.
Last edited by TruePurple on January 10th, 2008, 11:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by anakayub » January 10th, 2008, 11:40 am

OOS=out of sync
TBH=to be honest

OOS errors occur when info in one player is different/incompatible from the others. E.g. in your case, it would happen when allies move units onto the same square, at accidentally the same "network time".
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Post by TruePurple » January 10th, 2008, 11:48 am

So what about if it defaulted to player list order to decide priority when it doesn't know which move to give priority to by time?

I edited more content into and cleaned up for easier reading my previous post btw.

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Post by irrevenant » January 10th, 2008, 7:16 pm

TruePurple wrote:Whats OOS and TBH stand for? It wasn't listed on the acronym page.
I've added OOS to the acronyms list.

I didn't add TBH, 'cos this is the first time I can remember ever seeing it used.

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Re: Quicker game mechanics

Post by Kestenvarn » January 10th, 2008, 7:32 pm

TruePurple wrote:3. How about allies being able to move at the same time? I'm not sure the technical difficulties of it. But if it could be done it would be a great time saver for allied games.(nearly cut the time in half, or better if say 3 vrs 3) And since your not going to attack your allie no issues of "fast clicking" which does exist in other games that have simultaneous turns. As well no issues of zone of control with a allie (yes I know this has been discussed before, but not for allied games as far as I know)
Wow, that sounds interesting and possibly hilarious. Would certainly require good communication, luckily we have team labels/messages.

Edit: Man this might be worth getting back into multiplayer for. feasible large teams

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