New tips of the day

Brainstorm ideas of possible additions to the game. Read this before posting!

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Forum rules
Before posting a new idea, you must read the following:
User avatar
beetlenaut
Developer
Posts: 2491
Joined: December 8th, 2007, 3:21 am
Location: Washington State
Contact:

New tips of the day

Post by beetlenaut »

I created a new tips of the day file. Hopefully a better one!

This list makes all the tips into helpful suggestions instead of straight repeats of info in the manual, which some were. Many of the new tips come from the Tactics wiki pages.

Added or changed tips: (+ = changed.)

* Don't neglect to earn your leader experience! You need to keep him safe, but if you coddle him too much he will be at too low a level to survive future scenarios anyway.
* It is better to start the next scenario in a campaign with lower-level units that are about to level up than with those same units at a higher level.
+ There are six types of attacks: pierce, blade, impact, fire, cold, and arcane. Different units have weaknesses against different types of attacks. Right-click on a unit to see which attacks it is resistant to, and which will affect it the most..
* In the 'Actions' menu, you can select 'Show Enemy Moves' to highlight all possible hexes your adversary can actually move to (assuming your units stay where they are). Use this to make sure the enemy can't reach your weak or injured units on his next turn.
+ Don't move an injured unit if you don't have to--let it rest. If a unit does not move or attack, it will recover 2 hit points at the beginning of its next turn.
+ Units have a Zone of Control in each of the hexes next to them. If a unit moves into an enemy's Zone of Control, it may not move any further that turn. This means that units can have two empty hexes between them and still create a barrier to the enemy.
* If you are playing in the fog or with a shroud, you don't know where the enemy is. In this case, long-range scouting units are worth their cost, even if they get killed quickly.
* Units with the 'intelligent' trait need fewer experience points to level up. Early in a campaign, try to give killing blows to these units so you can get some high-level troops sooner.
* Don't always accept the computer's choice for the attack type! Its choice is based on the attack that deals the most damage regardless of how much damage you might receive in return.
* The encircling tactic by two units is very powerful, particularly against long range units. By placing two units on opposite sides of an opposing unit, their zones of control limit it to one hex move in any direction.
* You can access the 'recruit' and 'recall' commands by right-clicking on a castle tile. That will let you chose which hex you put a new unit in. Placing units wisely can sometimes let you get to a village a turn earlier.
* There are some helpful summary screens in the main menu: the 'Status Table', for instance, will let you know how your enemies are doing, and how you are doing in comparison.
+ Units with 'leadership' ability make lower-level adjacent units on the same side fight better. Use these units to help your other units level up faster.
* Units with the 'quick' trait move one extra hex per turn. This can be very important when moving through difficult terrain such as water or caves. It can make the difference between being able to move one hex or two.
* After you have played a few scenarios, read the 'Gameplay' section in the help screen carefully. Details become important as scenarios get harder.
* It is sometimes a good idea to recruit some weak, inexpensive units to absorb the enemy's first attack. They may die, but when you retaliate, you will do it with fresh units.
+ Instead of leveling up, high-level units gain an 'After Maximum Level Advancement' (AMLA), which usually increases the unit's maximum hit points by 3. This is less than the normal difference gained by advancing a level. Thus, it is usually more useful to try to advance your lower level units.
+ Keep track of the time of day. Lawful units fight better at day, and chaotic units fight better at night. Even good plans can fail if you attack at the wrong time of day.

I also removed some tips from the file for these reasons:
* Many listed things you would find out by playing the tutorial or one game scenario. ("Units stationed in villages heal 8 hit points at the beginning of their turn.")
* Many others listed the strengths and weaknesses of some units. ( "Skeletons are resistant to piercing and bladed attacks but vulnerable to impact, fire, and arcane attacks.") I replaced those with suggestions about reading the help files.
*A couple other tips were listed twice.

Removed tips:

* In a campaign, you can use veteran units from previous scenarios by using the 'recall' option. [listed twice]
* The terrain your units are occupying determines the chance your opponents have of hitting them in battle. The defensive rating for the currently selected unit in the currently selected terrain is displayed in the top right corner of the screen.
* Poisoned units lose 8 hitpoints every turn, but they will not die from poison: poison will never reduce them below 1 hitpoint. Poisoned units can be cured by moving them to a village, or placing them next to a unit with the 'cures' ability.
* You can use units from a previous scenario by selecting 'Recall' in the game menu. By recalling the same units over and over, you can build up a powerful and experienced army.
* Units have a Zone of Control in each of the hexes next to them. If a unit moves into an enemy's Zone of Control, it may not move any further that turn. Level 0 units are too frail to control a zone; and skirmisher units are skilled enough to ignore these zones.
* The chance to hit a unit usually depends on how well that unit can defend itself in the terrain it is standing in, however magical attacks have a 70% chance to hit both when attacking and defending. Marksman attacks have at least 60% chance to hit when attacking.
* Units stationed in villages heal 8 hitpoints at the beginning of their turn.
* Most foot units defend better in villages and castles than in most other terrain, while most mounted units don't get any defensive advantage in villages and castles.
* Horse based units are generally resistant to attacks with bladed or impact weapons, but are vulnerable to attacks with piercing weapons, including bows and spears.
* Elvish units move and fight very well in forest. Dwarvish units move and fight very well in hills and mountains.
* Skeletons are resistant to piercing and bladed attacks but vulnerable to impact, fire, and arcane attacks.
* Holding the mouse cursor on an ability or trait shows a description of that ability or trait. [listed twice]
* The 'slow' attack ability makes enemy units move slower and halves the damage they do on all attacks until they end a turn.
* Arcane attacks are very powerful against undead.
Attachments
tips.cfg
New tips of the day file: what do you think?
(6.97 KiB) Downloaded 133 times
vetgirig
Posts: 40
Joined: November 19th, 2003, 1:20 pm
Contact:

Post by vetgirig »

I think most of the tips you removed are very good - for new players and thus is useful.

More advance player never read the tip of the day and say - I didnt know that. Most newbies does that all of the time.
User avatar
Aethaeryn
Translator
Posts: 1553
Joined: September 15th, 2007, 10:21 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA

Post by Aethaeryn »

I agree with vetgirig. A lot of the removed ones on your list were really helpful for me as a newbie. For example, poison - until then I assumed poison killed a unit with under 9 HP. Meanwhile, some things wouldn't make sense to a newbie. Also, a few of your tactical tips are limited in utility or debatable. I think you added more advanced tips while you removed the ones that will actually be read. I think an advanced player gets his tactics from experience or the forums, not a tip of the day box. Alternatively, however, you could have a special "advanced tips" check box in the preferences so newbies can still know that elves are good on terrain. Btw, it's bad to assume that everyone will play the tutorial and remember everything from it.

In the development version, each tip is now attributed to a person. After this fairly major change to the tip box was just added, they probably won't accept your idea unless you come up with reasonable attributes for each of your new tips.
Velensk
Multiplayer Contributor
Posts: 3991
Joined: January 24th, 2007, 12:56 am

Post by Velensk »

I doubt that would be hard to do, consitering how many tips are attributed to Wesnoths Tactical Guide. Some of your tips are good however I see no reason to take out tips, one thing to keep in mind is that most new players don't read the read-me or the game rules they just jump in and as such they tend to miss things.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."
Soliton
Site Administrator
Posts: 1624
Joined: April 5th, 2005, 3:25 pm
Location: #wesnoth-mp

Re: New tips of the day

Post by Soliton »

beetlenaut wrote:I created a new tips of the day file. Hopefully a better one!
Please use the tips file from the development version or trunk (http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/w ... d/tips.cfg) as source.
"If gameplay requires it, they can be made to live on Venus." -- scott
User avatar
beetlenaut
Developer
Posts: 2491
Joined: December 8th, 2007, 3:21 am
Location: Washington State
Contact:

New new tips of the day

Post by beetlenaut »

OK. Points well taken. I'm not removing anything any more except the ones that were in there twice. I also took out the two new tips that mentioned sacrificing units. Those seemed the most dubious. I will happily defend any of the others though.

This file is based on the new development file, with the attributions. Thanks for giving me the location, Soliton. I put attributions on all the new tips that seemed appropriate. Half of them are from the Tactical Guide. I also changed the last attribution (on a tip about delaying shroud updates) as it seemed inappropriate to have a character from the game talking about player UI options. (I hope that doesn't step on anyone's toes too hard.) I expanded a few entries, too. For example, the poison entry now talks about healers slowing it. And, I fixed two others that were no longer correct because of changes in the UI.
Attachments
tips.cfg
Based on the latest format
(11.05 KiB) Downloaded 117 times
User avatar
irrevenant
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 3692
Joined: August 15th, 2005, 7:57 am
Location: I'm all around you.

Re: New tips of the day

Post by irrevenant »

beetlenaut wrote:This list makes all the tips into helpful suggestions instead of straight repeats of info in the manual, which some were.
IMO this shows a misunderstanding of the purpose of the tips. The sad(?) truth is that the vast bulk of players will not read the manual before playing the game. Many players work it out as they go and tips that repeat the manual are useful to them.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm finding the amount of info you're throwing at us overwhelming. I can't tell what you've changed. It would be best to list each change in this thread. eg.

New Tip: "If you are playing in the fog or with a shroud, you don't know where the enemy is. In this case, long-range scouting units are worth their cost, even if they get killed quickly."

(BTW, I would have mentioned here that move distance = sight distance. A lot of newbs don't know that).

Original Tip: Poisoned units lose 8 hitpoints every turn, but they will not die from poison: poison will never reduce them below 1 hitpoint. Poisoned units can be cured by moving them to a village, or placing them next to a unit with the 'cures' ability.
Proposed Version: Poisoned units lose 8 hitpoints every turn, but they will not die from poison: poison will never reduce them below 1 hitpoint. Poisoned units next to a healer will not lose hitpoints on their next turn. If they are in a village or next to a unit with the 'cures' ability, the poison will be completely cured on their next turn.
Reason: Include that healers can slow poison.

BTW, I disagree with the suggestion that advanced tips aren't useful for the tipbox. I'm sure lots of experienced Wesnoth players have never visited the forums.
User avatar
DDR
Posts: 556
Joined: March 23rd, 2007, 4:56 pm
Location: Kamloops, Canada
Contact:

Post by DDR »

Why not put 'tip of the day - visit wesnoth at: http://www.wesnoth.org and on #wesnoth' or something like that?

Just an idea. :)
User avatar
beetlenaut
Developer
Posts: 2491
Joined: December 8th, 2007, 3:21 am
Location: Washington State
Contact:

Details

Post by beetlenaut »

OK. Here are all the changes I'm proposing.

New Tip: "Don't neglect to earn your leader experience! You need to keep him safe, but if you coddle him too much he will be at too low a level to survive future scenarios anyway. - Great Mage Delfador, 516YW"

New Tip: "In the 'Actions' menu, you can select 'Show Enemy Moves' to highlight all possible hexes your adversary can actually move to (assuming your units stay where they are). Use this to make sure the enemy can't reach your weak or injured units on his next turn. - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"

New Tip: "Units with the 'intelligent' trait need fewer experience points to level up. Early in a campaign, try to give killing blows to these units so you can get some high-level troops sooner. - King Konrad, 536YW"

New Tip: "Don't always accept the computer's choice for the attack type. Its choice is based on the attack that deals the most damage regardless of how much damage you might receive in return. - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"

New Tip: "The encircling tactic by two units is very powerful, particularly against long range units. By placing two units on opposite sides of an opposing unit, their zones of control limit it to one hex move in any direction. - Memoirs of Gweddry, 627YW"

New Tip: "You can access the 'recruit' and 'recall' commands by right-clicking on a castle tile. That will let you chose which hex you put a new unit in. Placing units wisely can sometimes let you get to a village a turn earlier. - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"

New Tip: "There are some helpful summary screens in the main menu: the 'Status Table', for instance, will let you know how your enemies are doing, and how you are doing in comparison. - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"

New Tip: "Units with the 'quick' trait move one extra hex per turn. This can be very important when moving through difficult terrain such as water or caves. It can make the difference between being able to move one hex or two. - High Lord Kalenz, 470YW"

New Tip: "After you have played a few scenarios, read the 'Gameplay' section in the help screen carefully. Details become important as scenarios get harder! - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"

New Tip: "It is usually better to start the next scenario in a campaign with lower-level units that are about to level up than with those same units at a higher level. - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"

New Tip: "An otherwise sound plan can fail if you attack at the wrong time of day. - Handbook of Tactical Analysis Volume I - Haldric II, 42YW"

New Tip: "If you are playing in the fog or with a shroud, you don't know what you're facing. In this case, long-range scouting units are worth their cost. Try to choose scouts that can easily move across the surrounding terrain, because units see as far as they can move in one turn. - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"

New Tip: "On http://www.wesnoth.org you can find strategy guides, technical support, game editors, the history of Wesnoth, and much more. - The Wesnoth Community"


Original Tip: "There are six types of attacks: pierce, blade, impact, fire, cold, and arcane. Different units have weaknesses against different types of attacks. Right-click on a unit, and then select 'Unit Description', and then click 'Resistance' to see how much resistance a unit has against different attack types. - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"
Proposed Version: "There are six types of attacks: pierce, blade, impact, fire, cold, and arcane. Different units have weaknesses against different types of attacks. Right-click on a unit and select 'Unit Description' to see which attacks it is resistant to, and which will affect it the most. - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"
Reason: The interface has changed since the original tip was written.

Original Tip: "Poisoned units lose 8 hitpoints every turn, but they will not die from poison: poison will never reduce them below 1 hitpoint. Poisoned units can be cured by moving them to a village, or placing them next to a unit with the 'cures' ability. - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"
Proposed Version: "Poisoned units lose 8 hitpoints every turn, but they will not die from poison: poison will never reduce them below 1 hitpoint. Poisoned units next to a healer will not lose hitpoints on their next turn. If they are in a village or next to a unit with the 'cures' ability, the poison will be completely cured on their next turn. - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"
Reason: It's helpful to know that healers slow the effects of poison.

Original Tip: "You can use units from a previous scenario by selecting 'Recall' in the game menu. By recalling the same units over and over, you can build up a powerful and experienced army. - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"
Proposed Version: "You can use units from a previous scenario by selecting 'Recall' in the 'Actions' menu. By recalling the same units over and over, you can build up a powerful and experienced army. - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"
Reason: The menu name has changed since the tip was written.

Original Tip: "Units have a Zone of Control in each of the hexes next to them. If a unit moves into an enemy's Zone of Control, it may not move any further that turn. Level 0 units are too frail to control a zone; and skirmisher units are skilled enough to ignore these zones. - Handbook of Tactical Analysis Volume I - Haldric II, 42YW"
Proposed Version: "Units have a Zone of Control in each of the hexes next to them. If a unit moves into an enemy's Zone of Control, it may not move any further that turn. This means that units can have two empty hexes between them and still create a barrier to the enemy. (Level 0 units are too frail to control a zone; and skirmisher units are skilled enough to ignore these zones.) - Handbook of Tactical Analysis Volume I - Haldric II, 42YW"
Reason: Now, it also suggests something you can do with it. I didn't find it immediately obvious that you can leave two spaces between your units.

Original Tip: "Units rest if they do not move or attack during their turn. They will recover 2 hitpoints at the beginning of their next turn. - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"
Proposed Version: "Don't move an injured unit if you don't have to--let it rest. If a unit does not move or attack, it will recover 2 hit points at the beginning of its next turn. - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"
Reason: It's just a more explicit tip.

Original Tip: "Units with leadership ability make lower level adjacent units on the same side fight better. - Handbook of Tactical Analysis Volume I - Haldric II, 42YW"
Proposed Version: "Units with the 'leadership' ability make lower-level adjacent units on the same side fight better. Use these units to help your other units level up faster. - Handbook of Tactical Analysis Volume I - Haldric II, 42YW"
Reason: Same reason as the last one.

Original Tip: "Units can gain After Maximum Level Advancements (AMLAs), which usually increase the unit's maximum hitpoints by 3. Gaining an AMLA becomes progressively harder for each AMLA the unit receives, however. Thus, it is often more useful to try to advance your lower level units. - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"
Proposed Version: "Instead of leveling up, high-level units gain an 'After Maximum Level Advancement' (AMLA), which usually increases the unit's maximum hit points by 3. This is less than the normal difference gained by advancing a level. Thus, it is usually more useful to try to advance your lower level units. - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"
Reason: I don't go after AMLAs because they have limited value. Not so much because each one gets harder. Also, the original tip didn't actually say how AMLAs are earned!

Original Tip: "You cannot undo a move that reveals any fog or shroud. Toggle the 'Delay Shroud Updates' option on when you need to move units while retaining the ability to undo. - King Konrad, 536YW"
Proposed Version: "You cannot undo a move that reveals any fog or shroud. Toggle the 'Delay Shroud Updates' option on when you need to move units while retaining the ability to undo. - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"
Reason: Changed the attribution. The game characters shouldn't tell you it's just a game. Discussing the UI is a way of doing that.

Canditate for Removal: "Holding the mouse cursor on an ability or trait shows a description of that ability or trait. - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"
Reason: There is this tip also: "Nearly every icon and word in Wesnoth's playing screen has a tool-tip. Place your mouse pointer over one to get an explanation or description. - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"

Canditate for Removal: "In a campaign, you can use veteran units from previous scenarios by using the 'recall' option. - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"
Reason: There is this tip also: "You can use units from a previous scenario by selecting 'Recall' in the 'Actions' menu. By recalling the same units over and over, you can build up a powerful and experienced army. - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"

This post was a lot of work. That will teach me to propose changes! :)
Attachments
tips.cfg
Added one, fixed a typo.
(11.66 KiB) Downloaded 122 times
catwhowalksbyhimself
Posts: 411
Joined: January 23rd, 2006, 8:28 am

Post by catwhowalksbyhimself »

You might want to change the word scenarios to battles in the first one. It just helps keep it in character and in universe more. Not a big deal, but since you can easily take away the game-related term without losing the meaning, I see no reason why not.
Soliton
Site Administrator
Posts: 1624
Joined: April 5th, 2005, 3:25 pm
Location: #wesnoth-mp

Re: Details

Post by Soliton »

beetlenaut wrote:New Tip: "Don't always accept the computer's choice for the attack type. Its choice is based on the attack that deals the most damage regardless of how much damage you might receive in return. - The Wesnoth Tactical Guide"
I've committed the changes nearly as you suggested except this tip since it's wrong. The algorithm is a bit more sophisticated than that. You could change the tip to just mention that the computers choice isn't always the optimum though.

Don't hesitate to further discuss and improve the tips (with the committed version as base), I just wanted to acknowledge the work done so far and make sure it doesn't get forgotten.
"If gameplay requires it, they can be made to live on Venus." -- scott
User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Post by thespaceinvader »

Or take out the out-of-world references all together.

"You shouldn't always use the strongest or most obvious attack in your arsenal. Sometimes you can hurt the enemy more by taking less damage yourself" or something like that.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
catwhowalksbyhimself
Posts: 411
Joined: January 23rd, 2006, 8:28 am

Post by catwhowalksbyhimself »

No, you really do need some out of character tips. In fact, the one suggested in the post before mine is just plain confusing.
User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Post by thespaceinvader »

Some, certainly. But as few as possible, now that they are attributed to in-world sources. And best to avoid things like computers etc.

I admit, though that that wasn't the best way to phrase it. it was early, i was in a rush, and i was trying to keep it short. But this one is one which probably merits being longer.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
User avatar
beetlenaut
Developer
Posts: 2491
Joined: December 8th, 2007, 3:21 am
Location: Washington State
Contact:

Post by beetlenaut »

Thanks for committing it Soliton. Also thank you for the kind words.

I agree that out-of-the-world references are not as much fun. catwhowalksbyhimself had a good point on 'battles' instead of 'scenarios'. (Soliton took care of that.) How about if we rephrase the tip thusly:
"When attacking, carefully consider your choice of weapons. It may be better to use a weaker weapon that has a better chance of connecting, or to make a choice that involves less risk to yourself."

And we can attribute it to Haldric, who seems to be a more cautious hero than many others:
"- Handbook of Tactical Analysis Volume II - Haldric II, 43YW"
Post Reply