A new kind of unit.

[BuBu]

Lately a have a idea of a new kind of unit, a defensive unit that has counter attack. I don´t know what faction it will fit better. The suggestion of the unit is:

- it don´t attack;
- it only counter-attack;
- it counter-attack with 2x of the damage of the attack that was received, per example: 5x3 = 10x3.
- it attack first than the enemy (initiative)
- it counter attack with meelee attack in a lv1 and in a lv2 it counter attack with meelee and ranged attack.

The game usually has offensive units but defensive are few.
What do you think about this kind of unit?

[Bob_The_Mighty]

Look at the shieldbearer in the steppe orcs faction in extended era.

[Viliam]

- it don´t attack;

So if opponent has this unit, why should I even try to attack it? Why not just ignore it. It cannot do me any harm if I ignore it, or can it? Well, it will block my movement by ZoC. Maybe it could have some additional effect like healing, so I would have some motivation to try destroying it.

It would be interesting to know other properties of such unit. If it is fast, it could be used to capture and hold distant villages. If it is cheap (level 0), it could be used in large numbers to build "walls".

[Boucman]

it can hold critical defensive positions... protect some important units etc...

[Blarumyrran]

The game usually has offensive units but defensive are few.

note that multiplayer wesnoth (at least default era) is a very defensive game, unless drakes are involved. if anything, wesnoth units are not offensive enough.

[BuBu]

BuBu wrote:
- it don´t attack;

So if opponent has this unit, why should I even try to attack it? Why not just ignore it. It cannot do me any harm if I ignore it, or can it? Well, it will block my movement by ZoC. Maybe it could have some additional effect like healing, so I would have some motivation to try destroying it.

It would be interesting to know other properties of such unit. If it is fast, it could be used to capture and hold distant villages. If it is cheap (level 0), it could be used in large numbers to build "walls".

It´s a good idea, so with the unit could be select in to ways for it:

create it to work to heal other units or capture villages (be fast, a walking unit).

And what do you think about it only counter-attack with ARCANE attack.

it can hold critical defensive positions... protect some important units etc...

You got the point!!!

BuBu wrote:
The game usually has offensive units but defensive are few.

note that multiplayer wesnoth (at least default era) is a very defensive game, unless drakes are involved. if anything, wesnoth units are not offensive enough.

So most of the units are defensive and only the drake faction are offensive ? So that define a offensive unit is the movement type and amount that it can move ?

[thespaceinvader]

What defines offensive as opposed to defensive is, IMHO, primarily the amount of damage the unit can sustain - how easy it is to kill - compared to the amount of damage it deals. The horseman, for example, and the lancer even more so, cannot take many hits, but does a massive amount of damage when used to attack. It's used primarily in offence, because it gets killed quickly if you try to hold a defensive position with it, due to its low defences and low resistances.

[Oreb]

If such unit were to exist as you put it, a quick moving, high defense unit, with high ZoC. That'd cost alot, and for it to move quickly it would have to have low defense, otherwise it'd be to slow to get to defend those certain points.

[Blarumyrran]

note that multiplayer wesnoth (at least default era) is a very defensive game, unless drakes are involved. if anything, wesnoth units are not offensive enough.

So most of the units are defensive and only the drake faction are offensive ? So that define a offensive unit is the movement type and amount that it can move ?

alteration of day-and-night and village healing favors strike-and-return attacks most of the time. you wont make the "return" part easily with a HI. hell get zocced and before you know it, its night and enemy adepts/orcish archers/whatever are all over him, while he cant retaliate with decent damage.

that + drakes having low defence % and high attack, giving them an extra edge when attacking first (can kill a unit better than most other factions before getting hit, but when not using the edge gets more easily killed than others too so drakes mustnt let the enemy have the initiative).

multiplayer mustnt be too defensive lest it gets boring.

[BuBu]

So, a offensive unit could finish other units with easy. OK!

The good way of put this unit is that it can act like a "bodyguard" and give one option of strategy (ZoC). It has a great disvantage that is it cant attack and the enemies can ignore it, so because of this i suggest 2x counter attack.

I am thinking about it be one of the "white mages", because it don´t attack, and white mages are more peaceful, but can be other things.

IMO i dont be boring and it will be a good option of strategy and will be little different from the usual units, but will be necessary be balanced by experients players.

[Clonkinator]

You are proposing this for UMC-creators, right? Because as you probably already know it yourself any suggestions for mainline usually just get flamed down. Other than that, I think it's a creative idea, but I don't think it really fits to Wesnoth.

[BuBu]

OK, Thanks. It is for mainline or anyone who wants to use it, no problems. I am suggesting for someone that want to create something different from usual and don´t have a idea.

[Noy]

You are proposing this for UMC-creators, right? Because as you probably already know it yourself any suggestions for mainline usually just get flamed down. Other than that, I think it's a creative idea, but I don't think it really fits to Wesnoth.

And thus I will lock