Lava ought to be its own terrain.

[littlebeast]

As I said in this thread....

I think lava ought to be a unique terrain.

Now I realize it's not a terrain that would be used often, but it seems a bit odd for it to be the same as chasm, especially since there are versions that are both in and out of chasms. And there would be some differences, I'm sure - Likely drakes, possibly dwarves, I think there are some monsters that might be affected, and I know there's some UMC that it would effect(Era of Myths, at least.) It might even effect other flying units.

So...?

[Dave]

I know there's some UMC that it would effect(Era of Myths, at least.)

If a designer of a UMC wants lava to be a separate terrain they are able to do that just for their UMC. I don't see much reason to do it for mainline though....seems like feature creep.

[littlebeast]

Well it's true that there wouldn't be much point in adding it to mainline - unless some of the mainline units had different stats for it. I can see dwarves, drakes, trolls, maybe even some undead as having different stats (skeletons submerging in lava?) in it. I think it would add more interest to the game to have it, even if most units treat it the same as chasm.

If not, technically a designer could make it as a unique terrain - but unless there's a way to set a default for it(which AFAIK there isn't, but correct me if I'm wrong), it would be unfeasible to use it with mainline units, since they'd have to create a special variant for every single unit they used... 'Course, if there is a way to set a default, this is all moot.

[zookeeper]

If not, technically a designer could make it as a unique terrain - but unless there's a way to set a default for it(which AFAIK there isn't, but correct me if I'm wrong), it would be unfeasible to use it with mainline units, since they'd have to create a special variant for every single unit they used... 'Course, if there is a way to set a default, this is all moot.

You can't set a default, but you can make all mainline units that ever appear in your era/campaign be given the necessary stats on-the-fly for that new terrain type of yours.

EDIT: It's not a perfect solution, as the new stats wouldn't appear for example in their unit descriptions, but still.

[Aethaeryn]

Lava would burn most, but it would make sense for fiery beings to be able to walk in lava but not necessarily fly. Perhaps there should be a way for units to be able to handle one very specific terrain type in one movement way instead of just the general grouping?

[Tom of wesnoth]

In one version lava is a terrain so can this be locked please?

[irrevenant]

In one version lava is a terrain so can this be locked please?

Lava is currently the same terrain as chasm, only with a different graphic.

That means you can't create a unit that moves on lava but not on chasm.

Some people want to be able to do that.

Lava would burn most, but it would make sense for fiery beings to be able to walk in lava but not necessarily fly. Perhaps there should be a way for units to be able to handle one very specific terrain type in one movement way instead of just the general grouping?

I think the keyword is "default". It would be nice to be able to set a default move/defence/resist for a custom terrain that all units use unless specified otherwise.

[Aethaeryn]

In one version lava is a terrain so can this be locked please?

Lava is currently the same terrain as chasm, only with a different graphic.

That means you can't create a unit that moves on lava but not on chasm.

Some people want to be able to do that.

Lava would burn most, but it would make sense for fiery beings to be able to walk in lava but not necessarily fly. Perhaps there should be a way for units to be able to handle one very specific terrain type in one movement way instead of just the general grouping?

I think the keyword is "default". It would be nice to be able to set a default move/defence/resist for a custom terrain that all units use unless specified otherwise.

I agree, but it should have two different types: Custom Passable and Custom Impassable. I think lava in UMCs would fall into the second category, being impassable for most except lava-based units or something.

[irrevenant]

I think the keyword is "default". It would be nice to be able to set a default move/defence/resist for a custom terrain that all units use unless specified otherwise.

I agree, but it should have two different types: Custom Passable and Custom Impassable. I think lava in UMCs would fall into the second category, being impassable for most except lava-based units or something.

I don't see why you need to have two different types. I would envision modifying the WML terrain tag something like:

Code: Select all

[+terrain]
    <the usual stuff>
    default_move=99
    default_defence=40
[/terrain]

for "impassable terrain" or

Code: Select all

[+terrain]
    <the usual stuff>
    default_move=1
    default_defence=40
[/terrain]

for "passable terrain".

It could then be overridden in individual character movetypes as required.

[littlebeast]

Well hey, that's not what the thread was originally about but that'd work too. Sounds like a good idea to me!

And while I'm thinking about it, there could be a base_terrain key. Though I suppose that wouldn't really be that useful. Kind of just for copying the images . Or a if_undefined_aliasof, that could work.

[CIB]

It would definately make sense to make lava an own terrain type. IMO having lava being the same as chasm or lava chasm doesn't make any sense.

[irrevenant]

Well hey, that's not what the thread was originally about but that'd work too.

My concern with making lava its own terrain is that it's a very specialist terrain. (ie. only one or two units will care that it exists). Once that's implemented, you open the door for a Void terrain (which can only be crossed by Void mages), a hurricane terrain (with a move of 4 for everyone but air elementals) etc. etc.

I'd much rather see a generalised solution that allows people to create custom terrains for a specific scenario (including default move & defence). Lava would be one of these custom terrains, defined in any map that used it.

[Aethaeryn]

Well hey, that's not what the thread was originally about but that'd work too.

My concern with making lava its own terrain is that it's a very specialist terrain. (ie. only one or two units will care that it exists). Once that's implemented, you open the door for a Void terrain (which can only be crossed by Void mages), a hurricane terrain (with a move of 4 for everyone but air elementals) etc. etc.

I'd much rather see a generalised solution that allows people to create custom terrains for a specific scenario (including default move & defence). Lava would be one of these custom terrains, defined in any map that used it.

I like custom as it would allow more freedom in terrain since you currently rarely see anything custom with terrains. Right now it's too much of a chore to make it work or just a different look that functions the same to make a terrain. There's also too much reluctance by the community to add special terrains by default that could make things interesting.

I think perhaps we could have a tab of some rather-generic "custom"-function terrains in the editor, however, such as lava that function in the custom group but have a few stats working (for flying units that can fly over, for instance).

[CIB]

My concern with making lava its own terrain is that it's a very specialist terrain. (ie. only one or two units will care that it exists).

So, there's no difference between flying over lava and flying over chasm? Weird.

[Stilgar]

Doesn't lava have permanent illuminate on it, and chasm doesn't? Or am I mistaken on the illumination thing?