Fake attributions for the start of game hints?

Post by **thespaceinvader** » October 31st, 2007, 4:22 pm

Everything is poisonous, except some of the sheep.

- The tome of... well Fourecks, technically...

Seriously, though, i agree that the tome of wesnoth is far too generalist (and also, in some ways, too specific. Wesnoth is one country in a game which deals with multiple continents...). These could do with being attributable to any book or individual, rather than all being Tome of Wesnoth.

hagabaka · Post by **hagabaka** » October 31st, 2007, 4:32 pm

irrevenant wrote:
hagabaka wrote:It seems the tips could be categorized as pertaining to strategy, game mechanics and controls. Most strategy tips and some mechanics tips can conceivably be attributed to in-game characters, while the rest wouldn't. So should we keep the Tome of Wesnoth for the second type of tips?
See my first post in this thread. I think that game mechanics tips should be attributed to fictitious strategic texts such as "Garard's Treatise on Strategic Matters, Volume III".

The trouble with "The Tome of Wesnoth" is that it's so broad that it's meaningless. It's like having a book called "The Book of Australia".

My point was actually that many tips in their current form, if made quotes from game characters or books in the game world, would "break the fourth wall". I don't think the game characters have the realization that their battles are composed of hexes and turns, and their soldiers have HP, levels, etc (at least the campaign stories, told by the game characters, never talk about these). Therefore it might be strange for them to talk about, or write books about these ideas.

Maybe that's not a problem at all, or maybe we could come up with a different "source" that transcends the game world, just for those tips. I thought "The Tome of Wesnoth" could fit that purpose, because players are used to seeing it in the current tips, and it contains the name of the game.

Post by **irrevenant** » October 31st, 2007, 8:27 pm

hagabaka wrote:My point was actually that many tips in their current form, if made quotes from game characters or books in the game world, would "break the fourth wall".
I don't think the game characters have the realization that their battles are composed of hexes and turns, and their soldiers have HP, levels, etc (at least the campaign stories, told by the game characters, never talk about these). Therefore it might be strange for them to talk about, or write books about these ideas.

Very true. But I can see a strategy/tactics manual breaking things down into numbers and game terms.

If you give it a name like "A Tactical Analysis of Wesnoth's greatest battles" (ie. slip the word "analysis" in there) that would further emphasise the point.

[EDIT] P.S. UngeheuerLich, you said someone was currently working on the hints - who is it? I'd like to check in with them before making any changes so I don't reinvent the wheel.

Cuyo Quiz · Post by **Cuyo Quiz** » November 2nd, 2007, 4:15 am

I always guessed the Tome of Wesnoth was some sort of Encyclopedia. Towns and cities would get some sort of almanac form of it and the different chapters/treatises would be gathered by interested individuals. A "The Book" of sorts, only with particular bits of relevant information.

DDR · Post by **DDR** » November 2nd, 2007, 5:08 am

Call me crazy, but what if, instead of

the book o' wesnoth wrote:"Arcane attacks are very powerful against nonhuman beeings, especially against most Undead"
--High Mage Delfador, 515YW.

Why not...

the book o' wesnoth wrote:"Arcane attacks are very powerful against nonhuman beeings, especially against most Undead"
--Clonkinator, 515YW.

I think, this would not detract from the tome of wesnoth, and it would be fun. Sort of like the 'adopt a highway' program, only ours would be the 'adopt a quote' program...

Post by **Dave** » November 2nd, 2007, 6:01 am

I agree this is a good idea.

This was actually my intent from the beginning to do something like this. I just put 'The Tome of Wesnoth' in there as a placeholder, and it never got done.

David

Post by **Iris** » November 2nd, 2007, 11:52 am

DDR wrote:Call me crazy, but what if, instead of
the book o' wesnoth wrote:"Arcane attacks are very powerful against nonhuman beeings, especially against most Undead"
--High Mage Delfador, 515YW.
Why not...

the book o' wesnoth wrote:"Arcane attacks are very powerful against nonhuman beeings, especially against most Undead"
--Clonkinator, 515YW.

You are mad.

Great to see your opinion on this, Dave.

And about the fourth wall: I'd personally have no problem in reading Delfador's comments breaking the 4th wall. I like when characters break the 4th wall in books, TV series, comic, movies, and whatnot.

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » November 2nd, 2007, 5:40 pm

I admit that some of the tips may seem odd coming from game characters, but my thought is that those that mainly refer to interface stuff like "right click" could be reserved for characters like magi, particularly ancient/learned elves, etc. People who could be reasonably expected to have esoteric knowledge.

Likewise, stuff that talks about hexes and such could be attributed to military leader type characters who might speak in tactician's jargon and such.

And stuff that's not 4th-wall-breaking could be attributed to anyone.

Maybe it's still a little cheesy, but my 2 cents. Thoughts?

Post by **irrevenant** » November 2nd, 2007, 8:06 pm

Master Stilgar wrote:Maybe it's still a little cheesy, but my 2 cents. Thoughts?

Agreed, with the addition of my previous comment that system-based commentary should be attributed to tactical analysis manuals, not just tactical characters.

Now my inclination is to just put all the hints on the wiki and start adding attributions, but somebody mentioned that someone's currently revising the hints. Who is that? We want to work with the latest materials if possible.

[edit] Actually, that's easy enough to fix. The tips are now up on the wiki at http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/WesnothTips . Feel free to start making attributions. If there's any disagreement over the attributions, don't just nuke somebody else's work, take it to PM or the discussion page.

Note: It's in the Wesnoth .cfg file format. Don't purty it up or we'll just have to convert it back to use it.

P.S. I'm away for the rest of the day, but I'll be working on it myself, later.

Clonkinator · Post by **Clonkinator** » November 3rd, 2007, 10:03 am

DDR wrote:Call me crazy, but what if, instead of
the book o' wesnoth wrote:"Arcane attacks are very powerful against nonhuman beeings, especially against most Undead"
--High Mage Delfador, 515YW.
Why not...

the book o' wesnoth wrote:"Arcane attacks are very powerful against nonhuman beeings, especially against most Undead"
--Clonkinator, 515YW.

What the heck...!? Lol, what's up with you, guy?

But it makes me feel good that you choosed me for that.

Post by **irrevenant** » November 4th, 2007, 11:30 am

Okay, in the absence of anyone else doing anything, I assigned attributions to all the tips.

In cases where blatant game terminology was used (eg. "You gain 2HP from resting for a turn") I left it attributed to "The Tome of Wesnoth" (though I renamed it to "The Wesnoth Tactical Guide" - the old name made it sound like it existed inside the setting, which is impossible).

Two things I'm a bit concerned about:
(1) The attributions are a bit HttT heavy, since that's what I'm most familiar with.
(2) Some of the attributions are spoilers if you do your research re: the dates (or just recognise the name in some cases).

http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/WesnothTips

General thoughts, or any specific attributions you'd like to change?

P.S. I know I said don't change the format, but it was really bugging me, so I backflipped and changed it.)

Post by **irrevenant** » November 26th, 2007, 7:47 am

Hey cool, this got included in the latest version of Wesnoth.

I thought it had fallen by the wayside.

Thanks to whoever implemented that.

DDR · Post by **DDR** » November 27th, 2007, 12:55 am

Shadow Master wrote:
DDR wrote:...
You are mad.

I gotta stop posting late at night.