Voodoo Magic

[ubertuna-1]

After experimenting with a few unit images I ended up with something that I rather liked. A kind of shaman/mage. It got me thinking... it would be interesting if some units could use forms of voodoo magic as attacks. Units such as the orcish witchdoctor and suarian augur come to mind. In my opinion, units using voodoo magic could have an %80 chance to hit instead of a %70 chance, or some other upgrade to a normal magic attack. These units would be especially weak physically to make up for the added magical power. Maybe a unit using voodoo magic would be able to give any enemy unit within a certain range minor injuries. I don't really think that this idea will acctually be implemented into the game, but if you have any feedback please post.

[Stilgar]

Why would voodoo be more effective than formal wizardry? I would think the exact opposite myself.

[ubertuna-1]

It seems to me that voodoo magic is more about focusing on specific targets. Hence increased accuracy or the ability to home in on units from a distance. A mage might be able to deal more powerful strikes but that does not mean they are more accurate. Let's say you have an old voodoo sorceress at point A and a mage at point B and an enemy at point C. The voodoo sorceress can use a doll and pin or whatever and hurt the enemy while remaining at point A. The mage has to travel from point B to point C in order to strike the enemy with a magic blast. More powerful than voodoo in damage, but the voodoo magic also has it's advantages.

[hiro hito]

it's a good idea!

I just wonder if this kind of attack can work on undead?

[Velensk]

As a ranged attack you'd have to figure out a way to modify the interface. I dislike the Idea gameplay/practical wize but like it concept wize.

[Inigo Montoya]

In theory you could implement a long-distance attack within the current interface - I'm not going to do it because I don't have time, but if anybody does then try this:

Use a moveto event to trigger the whole thing after the ranged unit has moved, then store the locations and stats of every enemy unit within range (the mathematics and WML behind this is a bit fiddly, but not actually hard).
After the unit has moved, bring up a dialogue box saying "Do you wish to make a long-ranged attack?", with options for "No, thankyou" and "Yes, please".
If "No" is selected, nothing further happens, but in the event of a "Yes", move on to a further dialogue box, with options for each viable target within range (you have an internal list of locations within range - check each one to see if there is a non-allied unit there. If there is, retrieve its type for reference within the menu. If not, that location can be excluded from the menu.)

Once you have selected a target, you would need a routine to effectively mimic what happens when a unit attacks in the normal way. The WML for this is going to be horrendous, but it should be possible in theory. Note that it's going to be way easier to implement this if you don't allow the defending unit to fight back, or to fight back after all attacking strikes have been resolved.
The way to do this is to check the stats of both units, including their attacks, defence values in their current terrain, and their resistances (though if you're using this for a magical attack, presumably it has a fixed chance to hit, so defence would be irrelevant in that case). Then you need a routine which will run X times, and have a Y% chance of reducing HP by (Z modified by resistance), where X is number of strikes, Y is chance to hit (which may or may not be determined by the defense values of the target), and Z is the damage that you want to cause. Then check if the targeted unit has been reduced to less than 1 HP, and if it has, [kill] it.

If this is supposed to work like a normal attack, with both units taking turns to make 1 strike, it's even more awkward since you need such a routine for each unit, and you have to alternate between them. My advice would be, if you allow the defending unit to fight back at all (possibly only if it has some relevant ability or attack type?), that it should do so after the initial attack has been resolved (if it's still alive), since you can then use the same code again but just swap the two units within it.

I'm reasonably sure that this is all possible, though I'm not 100% sure of every detail of the code. Also, I have little time and infrequent access to computers, meaning I can't test any aspect of this. I would be very interested to know if anybody manages to get it to work, though.

[ubertuna-1]

Thanks guys. I'm gald you like the idea. I might put this Voodoo magic concept into a faction. It might be called "The Twisted" or something similar to that. I can do the artwork for it if somebody else is willing to do the WML. I might make a thread in faction/era development later. My new avatar is concept art for the "Twisted Mage" or "Voodoo Mage" or something similar. I recoulored and edited a silver mage staff to make it look like a voodoo stick.

I'm reasonably sure that this is all possible, though I'm not 100% sure of every detail of the code. Also, I have little time and infrequent access to computers, meaning I can't test any aspect of this. I would be very interested to know if anybody manages to get it to work, though.

I was thinking that it would work if somebody modified the WML used in DotG mod with the rocket launcher. It allows a unit to attack a certain position by specifying how many squares north, south, east, and west. It is also a no-retaliation attack. If we edit this so that you can specify coordinates (24,13 12,15 etc.) it might be a very practicle way to make voodoo magic possible.

[St Stux]

Thanks guys. I'm gald you like the idea. I might put this Voodoo magic concept into a faction. It might be called "The Twisted" or something similar to that. I can do the artwork for it if somebody else is willing to do the WML. I might make a thread in faction/era development later. My new avatar is concept art for the "Twisted Mage" or "Voodoo Mage" or something similar. I recoulored and edited a silver mage staff to make it look like a voodoo stick.

I'm reasonably sure that this is all possible, though I'm not 100% sure of every detail of the code. Also, I have little time and infrequent access to computers, meaning I can't test any aspect of this. I would be very interested to know if anybody manages to get it to work, though.

I was thinking that it would work if somebody modified the WML used in DotG mod with the rocket launcher. It allows a unit to attack a certain position by specifying how many squares north, south, east, and west. It is also a no-retaliation attack. If we edit this so that you can specify coordinates (24,13 12,15 etc.) it might be a very practicle way to make voodoo magic possible.

Mabey make it so the unit has to "charge" the attack first? Balance wise i can see people spamming this ablilty to kill leaders on big maps

[Blarumyrran]

how about, some unit (maybe the same unit) has an ability to MARK enemies (attack special; like poison&slow, once hitting, it gives a sign to the enemy.) and then when the voodoo guy attacks ANY enemy unit, the previously marked unit would get equal damage as the unit being attacked by the voodoo guy.

[Elvish_Pillager]

Once you have selected a target, you would need a routine to effectively mimic what happens when a unit attacks in the normal way.

Actually, there's a much simpler and more reliable way: Move the attacking unit next to the defending unit via WML, and force the player[1] to make the attack; after the attack, put the units back in their original positions. There are a few situations this doesn't cover, like Leadership or other area effects that apply to one unit or the other, but all these can be dealt with by relatively simple hacks added.

[1] Freeze the board, so that their only move option is to make that attack. The only option that can't be eliminated is their ability to end turn, in which case you can leave the board frozen until their next turn. As far as I know, the only effect of a turn passing that isn't immediately reversible by WML is the time of day change, so you'd make the player wait until the next time that time of day came around. Ugly, but it's their fault for ending turn when they shouldn't have. You could also just end the game if they end the turn. Either way, it's far less ghastly than simulating an entire combat.

[zookeeper]

Once you have selected a target, you would need a routine to effectively mimic what happens when a unit attacks in the normal way.

Actually, there's a much simpler and more reliable way: Move the attacking unit next to the defending unit via WML, and force the player[1] to make the attack; after the attack, put the units back in their original positions. There are a few situations this doesn't cover, like Leadership or other area effects that apply to one unit or the other, but all these can be dealt with by relatively simple hacks added.

Worth noting is the fact that both of these ideas are in the realm of "can be done, but no one would ever want to use it".

[pauxlo]

Once you have selected a target, you would need a routine to effectively mimic what happens when a unit attacks in the normal way.

Actually, there's a much simpler and more reliable way: Move the attacking unit next to the defending unit via WML, and force the player[1] to make the attack; after the attack, put the units back in their original positions.

This will be difficult if the defending unit is surrounded by other units.
So one may need to move both units to some special place outside the normal battlefield (copying also the terrain, if relevant, and maybe enabling only the voodoo-type-attack)

[ubertuna-1]

Mabey make it so the unit has to "charge" the attack first? Balance wise i can see people spamming this ablilty to kill leaders on big maps

Yeah that is the mainn flaw with my idea. Unless voodoo units could only attack units that were within a certain range, or had been previously attacked by other guys. Maybe something similar to synerr's "Marking" idea could work. Maybe the attack could be magic and it could leave something like a "Curse" effect. This could lower the unit's defenses or make it take a certain amount of damage every time it attacks. This might be difficult to do though, since there would be no way to heal it. Unless you can put in its WML that it can be healed by white mages, villages, etc. like poison? I made a possible unit tree for the "Twisted" faction. Only names and tree structure, no stats.

Magic Tree
L1 Shaman-->L2 Mage, L2 Occultist, L2 Summoner
L2 Mage-->L3 Spell Weaver
L2 Occultist-->L3 Voodoo Master
L3 Voodoo Master-->L4 Hag

Assassin Tree
L1 Assassin-->L2 Lurker
L2 Lurker-->L3 Stalker

Warrior Tree
L1 Bladesman-->L2 Warrior, L2 Spellblade
L2 Warrior--> L3 Legend, L3 Marshal

Ghost Tree
L0 Whisp-->L1 Spirit, L1 Ghost
L1 Spirit-->L2 Ancient Spirit
L1 Ghost-->L2 Wraith
L2 Wraith-->L3 Banshee

Undead Tree
L0 Reanimated Corpse-->L1 Skeletal Archer, L1 Skeletal Warrior
L1 Skeletal Archer-->L2 Skeletal Ranger
L1 Skeletal Warrior-->L2 Boneblade, L2 Fireblade
L2 Bonesword-->L3 Bloodblade

This faction is supposed to be a cross between the elves and the undead with modifications and the possible addition of voodoo magic. If anybody wants to help please say so and I will post a thread in faction/era development.

[Aethaeryn]

Mabey make it so the unit has to "charge" the attack first? Balance wise i can see people spamming this ablilty to kill leaders on big maps

Yeah that is the mainn flaw with my idea. Unless voodoo units could only attack units that were within a certain range, or had been previously attacked by other guys. Maybe something similar to synerr's "Marking" idea could work. Maybe the attack could be magic and it could leave something like a "Curse" effect. This could lower the unit's defenses or make it take a certain amount of damage every time it attacks. This might be difficult to do though, since there would be no way to heal it. Unless you can put in its WML that it can be healed by white mages, villages, etc. like poison? I made a possible unit tree for the "Twisted" faction. Only names and tree structure, no stats.

Magic Tree
L1 Shaman-->L2 Mage, L2 Occultist, L2 Summoner
L2 Mage-->L3 Spell Weaver
L2 Occultist-->L3 Voodoo Master
L3 Voodoo Master-->L4 Hag

Assassin Tree
L1 Assassin-->L2 Lurker
L2 Lurker-->L3 Stalker

Warrior Tree
L1 Bladesman-->L2 Warrior, L2 Spellblade
L2 Warrior--> L3 Legend, L3 Marshal

Ghost Tree
L0 Whisp-->L1 Spirit, L1 Ghost
L1 Spirit-->L2 Ancient Spirit
L1 Ghost-->L2 Wraith
L2 Wraith-->L3 Banshee

Undead Tree
L0 Reanimated Corpse-->L1 Skeletal Archer, L1 Skeletal Warrior
L1 Skeletal Archer-->L2 Skeletal Ranger
L1 Skeletal Warrior-->L2 Boneblade, L2 Fireblade
L2 Bonesword-->L3 Bloodblade

This faction is supposed to be a cross between the elves and the undead with modifications and the possible addition of voodoo magic. If anybody wants to help please say so and I will post a thread in faction/era development.

Mage, Assassin, Ghost, Wraith, and the entire Undead Tree don't have original names and the entire undead section doesn't seem to be much different than the Undead faction. One suggestion would be for reanimated corpse -> zombie as it has the "voodoo" theme so can use the proper name.

[ubertuna-1]

It's just the first attempt at the tree. And there are differences in the skeleton units.