Beeing kind to new players!

Brainstorm ideas of possible additions to the game. Read this before posting!

Moderator: Forum Moderators

Forum rules
Before posting a new idea, you must read the following:
Locked
UngeheuerLich
Posts: 319
Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 1:10 pm

Beeing kind to new players!

Post by UngeheuerLich »

I don´t know if it is FPI, but I think topics with FPI should be closed after a moderator points to FPI. This stops other people from jumping in and flaming. Also you should try with a kind: thanks for trying to help, but the developers disagree (see frequently posted idea thread) instead of: capital letter NO (or worse with big letters)

I think some suggestions, which are neither wrong nor stupid in itself but discussed and rejected, are treated in a very unpolite manner lately. I know, its your game (and a very nice one), but any suggestion can improve this game in a direct or indirect way.

Beeing rude to new players who are trying to help doesn´t help wesnoth at all. All it does is stopping wesnoth community from growing or helping in the development process.

If a mod reads it, please close this topic!

p.s.: I know that developers are reading this forum very frequently and taking ideas in this forum into account. I also know that a short answer from developers are because they are in a hurry etc., but new players often don´t know.
Clonkinator
Posts: 676
Joined: July 20th, 2006, 4:45 pm
Location: Germany

Post by Clonkinator »

Kind of agreed. From what I see, people really have been pretty rude to FPIs in the past time...
User avatar
Ken_Oh
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 2176
Joined: February 6th, 2006, 4:03 am
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA

Post by Ken_Oh »

Oh nooooooooo, not another thread of ideas on the Ideas forum.

Seriously, I'm surprised that devs and mods take as much time as they do posting in this, by design, nearly worthless forum. I guess there's a choice between having a forum filled with a bunch of ideas that the devs will never use or having a forum filled with a few ideas that the devs will never use. It seems that they have chosen the latter.
UngeheuerLich
Posts: 319
Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 1:10 pm

Post by UngeheuerLich »

i really don´t think this forum is worthless... but thats my personal opinion...

as you can see in the development version, some ideas discussed (and rejected) were introduced in the 1.3.8 version.

i know that the devs care about what is said in multiplayer and ideas forum and i know they have discussions on IRC about ideas brought up in the forum/ ideas which are brought up after devs have disussed it...

my concern is more that esecially the forum moderators have to be professional (even if they are not) and be somehow poilte... that´s their job, sry. and when a dev jumps in and says: no, thread should be locked down by him/her with a short polite expressed reason why, to stop a lot of people jumping in and start a flamewar on the poor thread opener.

(i have seen that it is already done sometimes, but sometimes not... a little bit inconsistent)

i would like this thread to be locked... because of the aforementioned reason... :?
Last edited by UngeheuerLich on October 18th, 2007, 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
irrevenant
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 3692
Joined: August 15th, 2005, 7:57 am
Location: I'm all around you.

Re: Beeing kind to new players!

Post by irrevenant »

UngeheuerLich wrote:I don´t know if it is FPI, but I think topics with FPI should be closed after a moderator points to FPI.
They generally are.
UngeheuerLich wrote:Also you should try with a kind: thanks for trying to help, but the developers disagree (see frequently posted idea thread) instead of: capital letter NO (or worse with big letters)
I think some suggestions, which are neither wrong nor stupid in itself but discussed and rejected, are treated in a very unpolite manner lately.
The "NO"s annoy me too. Maybe the poster is in a hurry, but does it really take that much longer to say "this won't be implemented because it will destroy faction balance, sorry." than "NO!"?

On the flip side, the poster can guard against this to an extent by being able to say "I've looked at the FPI and discussion on similar ideas and this is different because...".

These days the first hurdle for an idea is "first, do no harm". Wesnoth is so bedded down that generally a minor improvement with no downside will be accepted and a massive improvement with a small downside won't. If you can show that you've considered and eliminated any possible downsides, that significantly ups your chances of acceptance.
UngeheuerLich wrote:If a mod reads it, please close this topic!
As you wish.
Ken Oh wrote:Oh nooooooooo, not another thread of ideas on the Ideas forum.
Hmm, maybe discussing the Ideas forum should be made an FPI. I'm half-serious. (BTW, you linked 17783 twice).
Ken Oh wrote:Seriously, I'm surprised that devs and mods take as much time as they do posting in this, by design, nearly worthless forum. I guess there's a choice between having a forum filled with a bunch of ideas that the devs will never use or having a forum filled with a few ideas that the devs will never use. It seems that they have chosen the latter.
Actually if you go through the forum's history, you'll find that quite a few of the ideas end up being used.

P.S. I've been slack about finalising that Ideas Forum Rules document. I'll probably finalise it on the weekend.

I should probably update the "Improving the chances of getting your idea accepted" document to include "first, do no harm" too...
User avatar
zookeeper
WML Wizard
Posts: 9742
Joined: September 11th, 2004, 10:40 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Beeing kind to new players!

Post by zookeeper »

irrevenant wrote:
UngeheuerLich wrote:Also you should try with a kind: thanks for trying to help, but the developers disagree (see frequently posted idea thread) instead of: capital letter NO (or worse with big letters)
I think some suggestions, which are neither wrong nor stupid in itself but discussed and rejected, are treated in a very unpolite manner lately.
The "NO"s annoy me too. Maybe the poster is in a hurry, but does it really take that much longer to say "this won't be implemented because it will destroy faction balance, sorry." than "NO!"?
Yes, because all except that "NO!" is redundant. And really, I rarely see NOs to a reasonable idea by someone who isn't just being stupid. If someone posts a completely dumb idea, then no, I really don't want to spend more than 5 seconds replying with something more elaborate than a NO. And someone has to post that, because all other replies would be of the useless "hmm, yeah, maybe, maybe in a UMC, I dunno, try this link to see how you can better the chances of the idea getting accepted, you should know this and that and yadda yadda maybe it should be +2 instead it could be interesting if you want to learn WML try this yadda yadda" kind.

I agree that politely and even semi-intelligently presented ideas should not receive an overly blunt NO-and-lock and so on, but as I said, I've rarely seen that happen. Or maybe my memory just fails me, in which case please refresh my memory by showing a few examples.

EDIT: Clarification: yes, the reason why a developer posts a NO is exactly because they do not want to explain the same thing over and over and over and over again when some well-meaning noob again posts the same idea. Even if the explanation is just one sentence.
User avatar
irrevenant
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 3692
Joined: August 15th, 2005, 7:57 am
Location: I'm all around you.

Re: Beeing kind to new players!

Post by irrevenant »

zookeeper wrote: EDIT: Clarification: yes, the reason why a developer posts a NO is exactly because they do not want to explain the same thing over and over and over and over again when some well-meaning noob again posts the same idea. Even if the explanation is just one sentence.
I understand where you're coming from. It can be really annoying to have to say the same thing over and over again.

The flip side is that the newb has no idea why the community is being so rude. A one sentence explanation isn't redundant to him.

IMO, the extra 10 seconds is worthwhile if it nudges someone towards becoming a productive member of the community rather than a disgruntled, disruptive poster - or a non-member who spreads bad word of mouth about the community.

And being so repetitive means that trotting out a stock response is easy: "No, read the FPI." or "No, it would disrupt the faction balance", for example.
zookeeper wrote:And someone has to post that, because all other replies would be of the useless "hmm, yeah, maybe, maybe in a UMC, I dunno, try this link to see how you can better the chances of the idea getting accepted, you should know this and that and yadda yadda maybe it should be +2 instead it could be interesting if you want to learn WML try this yadda yadda" kind.
I've seen a couple of people say something like this. Is it really that unreasonable to say "This is not going to happen in mainline, but if you want to implement it in your own UMC, go for it. You can find the resources at..."? That seems the best of both worlds to me, since it throws the onus back on the original poster.
Rhuvaen
Inactive Developer
Posts: 1272
Joined: August 27th, 2004, 8:05 am
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: Beeing kind to new players!

Post by Rhuvaen »

irrevenant wrote:Is it really that unreasonable to say "This is not going to happen in mainline, but if you want to implement it in your own UMC, go for it. You can find the resources at..."?
Perhaps we should then have a forum button for automated responses:
friendly automated response wrote:"TY for sharing your idea and reading the FPI, CABD in UMC but remember, WINR and HMMA. Please RTFM and get going, we know IIRWIR."
:wink:
Locked