New type of unit:Heroes

Brainstorm ideas of possible additions to the game. Read this before posting!

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Forum rules
Before posting a new idea, you must read the following:
Post Reply
BigChief
Posts: 23
Joined: January 12th, 2007, 4:52 pm

New type of unit:Heroes

Post by BigChief »

I've been thinking.Perhaps add something new, something exciting.Adding new abilities...no.New weapons...no.Something that shall change the game in the very roots.Here we have a situation:

"Ok, let me see hmm....Aha that archer has only 7 experience points left to advance.Oh but has only 3HP.Hey, wait a second, I have that Elvish Fighter next to him,and the target here is a nearby Orcish Archer.He has 16HP.Because he has Ranged Att. I wouldn't risk attacking him with my archer.Maybe my fighter can soften him up.Eat swords, Orc.My fighter has 5-4 att , the only thing he must do is miss 1 or 2 of his attacks and it'll be ok.Ok... common miss it .O oh he killed him and I wanted to upgrade my archer."

This is just an example of the situation.That att gave experience, but I didn't want to end this way.Where is the solution?
Ok, I have one.Wait a minute, it is in my pocket(just kidding).

How about this.You kill a unit and you can choose:Transform into experience or transform into Power Points(the name is not important, they can be called might points,etc.).Ok, so what are the power points for?Well,If we collect some number of power points my suggestion is to make a new type of unit we can summon with those points.Let that unit be called a hero.Heroes (or heroines) shall not have levels but they will be powerful.It does not have to be heroes, they can be mercenaries,tamed monsters,etc.My point is that this will make the game more flexible and more interesting.Oh, I forgot.Heroes (if accepted) Shall be exceptional for every race.
BigChief says haug(bye)!
----------------------------

User avatar
Urs
Art Contributor
Posts: 437
Joined: August 11th, 2007, 5:33 pm

Post by Urs »

Well, that's part of the challenge of Wesnoth in the first place. Supplementing bad skill with features = not a good thing, IMO.

Besides, this sounds overly complicated, a clear violation of KISS, which is part of what makes wesnoth so fun to play.

Raemon
Posts: 94
Joined: December 16th, 2006, 12:00 am

Post by Raemon »

Err . . .

And somehow, this fixes the problem of having an archer close to leveling but too weak to attack?
I'm a newbie. Don't listen to what I say.

User avatar
Ken_Oh
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 2176
Joined: February 6th, 2006, 4:03 am
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA

Post by Ken_Oh »

The idea is, simply put, to give you an option to refuse experience given to any unit and instead use those points towards something else. The FPI says something about gain with little risk, which this is kind of suggesting.

User avatar
Iris
Site Administrator
Posts: 6673
Joined: November 14th, 2006, 5:54 pm
Location: Chile
Contact:

Post by Iris »

Urs wrote:Well, that's part of the challenge of Wesnoth in the first place. Supplementing bad skill with features = not a good thing, IMO.

Besides, this sounds overly complicated, a clear violation of KISS, which is part of what makes wesnoth so fun to play.
KISS, I thought, was only applicable in the game engine, not in the gameplay.

The gameplay is supposed to be really hard if you don't use your brain cells, as you eventually shall run out of gold if you don't care about the units you send to combat.

And I dislike people who don't insert SPACES with their keyboard's SPACEBAR right after a punctuation symbol and before a letter.
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.

User avatar
Urs
Art Contributor
Posts: 437
Joined: August 11th, 2007, 5:33 pm

Post by Urs »

KISS, I thought, was only applicable in the game engine, not in the gameplay.
The gameplay IS simple - there are no buildings to raise, no resources to mine, no boats to use, no bridges to cross. All you have to do is attack another unit. This is very straightforward and simple in theory. In practice it's much harder, which is what makes the game so challenging and fun.

BigChief
Posts: 23
Joined: January 12th, 2007, 4:52 pm

Ok

Post by BigChief »

Sorry for bothering you.
BigChief says haug(bye)!
----------------------------

BigChief
Posts: 23
Joined: January 12th, 2007, 4:52 pm

But..

Post by BigChief »

Ken Oh, you have gave me an idea.Why don't you choose between gaining experience and gaining gold?(Robbed the killed unit)
BigChief says haug(bye)!
----------------------------

User avatar
Iris
Site Administrator
Posts: 6673
Joined: November 14th, 2006, 5:54 pm
Location: Chile
Contact:

Post by Iris »

Urs wrote:no bridges to cross...
I'll keep that in mind, heh. :D

BigChief, take what I said just like a way to improve your ortography. It's really painful to read sentences which are crashing each other due to lack of spaces. Specially when you're a programmer and use object1.member type of statements as single words. :wink:
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.

User avatar
Urs
Art Contributor
Posts: 437
Joined: August 11th, 2007, 5:33 pm

Post by Urs »

:oops: oops. I meant no bridges to build.


About robbing a unit, that would make more sense as an ability. A thief like unit could rob a dead unit of about 5 gold, while lvl 2 thief like unit could rob it of 10 gold, etc...

(I was saying thief like unit because I don't really want this on the current thief)

Velensk
Multiplayer Contributor
Posts: 3991
Joined: January 24th, 2007, 12:56 am

Post by Velensk »

One thing I've always liked about Wesnoth is their fairly realistic aprouch to heros. For example in HTTT Komrad, Lis'ar Defoldor, and Kalenz are all "heroes" and although probably some of the nastiest units in your arsenal, there isn't anything superhuman about them they die and act like anyone else. In a multiplayer match lvl 2 units are your "heros". They are the valiant warriors who smote down enough enemies to advance.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

BigChief
Posts: 23
Joined: January 12th, 2007, 4:52 pm

Sorry

Post by BigChief »

Sorry, I got a little carried away with my idea that I forgot about writing errors. Sorry again.
BigChief says haug(bye)!
----------------------------

hjwn
Posts: 42
Joined: May 22nd, 2007, 6:36 am
Location: Europe

Post by hjwn »

Urs wrote:About robbing a unit, that would make more sense as an ability. A thief like unit could rob a dead unit of about 5 gold, while lvl 2 thief like unit could rob it of 10 gold, etc...
In the MP scenario "A New Land, End of Days" you can steal gold, not from the dead though. In "Brotherhood of Light" you can empty the pockets of some slaughtered guys, but... well, I won't spoil it :D
just blame it on the rng when you lose

BigChief
Posts: 23
Joined: January 12th, 2007, 4:52 pm

Something similar...

Post by BigChief »

How about this?
After max levels, all those units that have level 3 or more will, after they kill a few enemies, become legends of the field. Not a big change in the unit image, just add a crown or something else to represent that. When they become legends, the player can choose to upgrade three things:
1)Attack strength;
2)More attack(s);
3)Increase health (more than AMLA does).

After that, there are no levels.
BigChief says haug(bye)!
----------------------------

Velensk
Multiplayer Contributor
Posts: 3991
Joined: January 24th, 2007, 12:56 am

Post by Velensk »

All of what you proposed is possible using AMLAs. AMLAs are there because they did not want units to get anymore powerful after max lvl however they did not want the xp to be wasted so they made it so that units gain minor bonuses.

I have always felt that the diffrent lvles represented diffrent lvls of experiance the real life equivilant would be

0-milita
1-Green Troops
2-Vetrens
3-Elite
4-Legendary
5-Epic

The developers never wished to give most unit the option of developing beyound lvl 3. This makes sense, as any talented recruit with sufficeint experiance and disipline can become Elite, but olny a very small pool can become Legendary, and as far as I know olny one human ever becomes a lvl 5 (defeldor). Epic is a lvl generaly reserved for monsters.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

Post Reply