Fantasy creatures/historic units not in Wesnoth

[Edward V Riley]

To me, it wouldn't matter if he did copy the Dragonlance Draconians for the drakes. There's almost no original ideas left out there except combining two existing races into one new type...and let's face it, that's not original either.

Where we can be original is taking existing ideas out there and making them better. Call them dragonlizards, Lizardians, etc. and there's no copyright issue.

Take Drow Elves.. Even before I started playing Wesnoth I knew that they were a copyrighted feature. But who says anyone has to call them drow to be dark elves? SOmeone's already working on this faction. You can call them "Underdark Elves", as long as it adds to the fantasy/tactical roleplaying aspects of the game. (You could also call them cave or Tunnel elves, but that makes them seem like a neanderthalic version of elves. lol)

Yes, we should all avoid getting any copyright issues, but if we limited everything to what's not there, we'll be stuck with almost nothing.

[irrevenant]

There are a million different versions of the vampire myth nowadays. Only in some of them is daylight immediately fatal, and in very few do vampires have to feed every 12 to 16 hours just to survive.

True, though a loss of 1 or 2 hp per turn + drain ability (maybe at double efficiency) could be interesting.

Re: the original suggestions, the idea of "more creatures for Wesnoth" has been raised before, and the answer tends to be: "Come up with a cool creature, use it in a campaign/faction (or give it to someone else to do so) and it'll probably get used in game (if not in mainline)."

This thread has value as a general "what sort of creatures would be cool?" brainstorming thread, but realise that you'll probably still have to do the work yourself if you want it to happen.

P.S. I agree that it would probably be hard to fit a new sentient race into the established Wesnoth setting, but if it's cool enough I imagine a place would be found for it...

[ael193]

giants, while found in every cultures mythology are orimalily used based on the norse version, the jotun( the hill giants, large people who were basickly ok guys evin if they had to fight for the bad guys at ragnarok) the Nifel giants( old wise and mostly evil most lived in nifelhiem, the hell of ice) and the fire giants, sorrry forgot the norse name(100% evil flaming dudes who gaurded the gate to mushefilhiem, the hell of fire. they gleefely await trying to blow up the world durring ragnarok) other variaties exist but are less comon. they are aided by a race of goblins, caled the vattier(spelling may be wrong) and trolls. they had jotun hags, and dark preists and many of the fire and ice giants knew magic.

please note that my information may be inacurate as it is coble together from common descriptions found in games and novels

[Maeglin Dubh]

Just a friendly reminder.

WinDD.

Carry on.

[Dovolente]

To me, it wouldn't matter if he did copy the Dragonlance Draconians for the drakes. There's almost no original ideas left out there except combining two existing races into one new type...and let's face it, that's not original either.

There are an infinite number of original ideas out there, but people in general (and the Wesnoth creaters/developers/community in particular) end up using ideas that copy or mesh easily into our pre-conceived notions of fantasy worlds. The world of Wesnoth is "Middle Earth Plus", basically. That's not a bad thing, really--I can focus on the strategy and challenge of the game (which is the reason I'm playing) without having to take time to understand and appreciate unfamiliar fantasy ideas.

When I want original fantasy, I go to a library or bookstore. And spend a long, long, long time looking for it.

[Ken_Oh]

I'd like to see a discussion sometime on how exactly Wesnoth is different or the same compared to other fantasy universes. I think we should capitalize on how it's unique and perhaps expand from there.

I remember in a thread a long time ago someone said "Delfador is basically just Gandalf." But, recently I've been reading up on Arthurian legends and I realized that Gandalf is nearly a complete rip-off of Merlin. I'm sure, great and mysterious magicians, there are plenty of fantasy concepts that cannot even be attributed to the last millennium.

Drakes seem rather unique. I know other fantasy universes have lizardmen but not ones that seem so close to dragons. I think that's part of my difficulty on thinking about them. I have no preconceptions about their societies and how the other races view them. Admittedly, I haven't played any Drake campaigns so maybe I should start there.

[Elvish_Pillager]

Delfador isn't like Gandalf at all... he doesn't have infinite range battlefield-altering magical powers, and he doesn't have a horse, much less a horse with about 20 moves!

There's almost no original ideas left out there

Nonsense.

[Edward V Riley]

No, Delfador isn't Gandalf. Elvish Pillager hit it on the head there. He doesn't have Shadowfax, he doesn't have Glamdring, he doesn't have lore about everything, and he dies instead of coming back as Delfador the White (unless you reload before death and rename him, but I digress). Man, Tolkien gave him so much, might as well give him full plate armor and thieving abilities with occasionally throwing up a gold bar when he needs cash.

Forgive me, there are still original ideas. It was just that I was in a mood when I typed that.

[zookeeper]

Drakes seem rather unique. I know other fantasy universes have lizardmen but not ones that seem so close to dragons. I think that's part of my difficulty on thinking about them. I have no preconceptions about their societies and how the other races view them. Admittedly, I haven't played any Drake campaigns so maybe I should start there.

Since I'm one of the people in the process of writing racial descriptions and backgrounds, here's basically what drakes and their societies are supposed to be like roughly: they're based on strict hierarchy and almost military-like discipline. A drake society (if there actually are several individual ones) is ruled by a group of the strongest or most respected warriors, and rising in rank is pretty much done by challenging someone (to a duel, most often) for their position. In practise they employ a caste system, with worker slaves at the bottom and leaders and warriors at the top. The laws allow anyone, even the slaves, to prove their worth and rise through the ranks, and that every rank above that of a lowly slave needs to be earned (or that's the ideal; in practise some are born into higher castes and some into lower ones). Treachery (at least against fellow drakes, despite any differences in caste or rank) is highly despised. Rather territorial but won't generally invade lands of other races. No mentionable technology besides weapon- and armoursmithing (since they don't really need much else). Almost everyone respects respects the rules and laws of the society so there's quite a bit of collectiveness in there, but individual achievements and displays of bravery and success are what make up a respected drake.

So you could say drakes are a healthy combination of police state, samurai, patriotism and endorsement of darwinism.

I've only played FtF (I think there was some other drake campaign at some point, too?) and IIRC it didn't really tell much if anything about drakes or their societies (besides geography and such), although it was a long time since I last checked.

[Edward V Riley]

Tell me that those aren't adapted from Dragonlance Draconians....

The military society is reminiscent of Sparta as well.

I haven't been able to afford a book in a couple of years. What's this about NOBLE Draconians I read in WIkipedia? Apparently, in desperation at the end of the War of the Lance, they tried making draconians from evil eggs and got good draconians. I must have missed that book or two.

Seriously, the Drakes need a healer type. A battlefield Medic would sure come in handy playing these. Since I've been playing Drakes, I've basically had to be expendable with them, especially since the scenarios so far have the villages far apart, not to mention the fact that they all seem to lean into hits. By that, I mean the enemy units hit them very, very easily and often. What's the use of having more hit points if they're so hit prone? At least compensate for their tough, leathery hides by not doing as much damage.

[MDG]

I haven't been able to afford a book in a couple of years.

I trust you won't be donating to the project financially then?

Seriously, the Drakes need a healer type. A battlefield Medic would sure come in handy playing these. Since I've been playing Drakes, I've basically had to be expendable with them, especially since the scenarios so far have the villages far apart, not to mention the fact that they all seem to lean into hits. By that, I mean the enemy units hit them very, very easily and often. What's the use of having more hit points if they're so hit prone? At least compensate for their tough, leathery hides by not doing as much damage.

In MP they have a healer, the Saurian Augur. Regarding the ease with which they get hit, they were built that way. Each faction has strengths and weaknesses and none are supposed to end up over-powered. Drakes are fast, tough, hard hitting but, really, really crap defence and few extra abilities. Change their main weakness and it completely screws MP balance...

[Edward V Riley]

Didn't know about the healer, as I can't access Multiplayer for some reason. My screen freezes and anyways, my dialup stinks.

They truly need the healer though. They're not particularly hardhitting as almost every attack they dare to do seems a suicide plunge(After inevitable counterattacks on opponent's turn), and every victory seems a pyrrhic one.

[Velensk]

If your going to complain about game balance then here is not the place to do it.

As said before in mp the drakes have a healer, and if there is none in the single player you are playing then obviousely the campain creater did not put them there for a reason. Drakes are consitered one of the hardest races to master.

You can play multiplayer hot-seat if you can get someone to play with you (or you can play against the cpu though it is not very good). If you do you will be able to use the drakes healer.

[Jetrel]

5- Draconians/Lizardmen- Granted the saurons are sort of like this, but the lizard men would be a type with meleers, ranged, and even shaman and mystics. Great units for swamps and even forests, but terrible elsewhere.

I think Saurians covers this, there are enough units to have an entire faction, but they shouldn't be in mainline obviously. Has anybody actually made the Saurian faction out of those units, or are they still just floating around in the GraphicLibrary?

Actually, some of the non-official saurian units should be put into mainline for non-multiplayer use. If the graphics are good, and they match the existing style, it's sensible of us to support them.

Because, really, campaigns are _dying_ for more unique units to use as enemies - we've got less than ten, right now, that are in mainline support, but not used as multiplayer units.

[Weeksy]

The Saurian Chameleon and Saurian Assasin from the Marsh Era are *Really* cool in animation, and I think it would be nice units to have included in mainline.

EDIT: Now that I'm looking at the unit's stats, they seem to be seriously lacking. The jumping and dodging it does however, are rather cool effects.