Fantasy creatures/historic units not in Wesnoth

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turin
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Post by turin »

Edward V Riley wrote:Drakes certainly seem to be the most noble.
Do they? I somehow suspect that this is only because they rarely appear in campaigns as enemies, and when they do they are presented as "a culture so different from ours that we can neither understand it nor judge it".
Edward V Riley wrote:I like the name Steppe orcs. Glad someone else is more awake than I am.
Well, it is already a faction in the EE...
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Vendanna
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Post by Vendanna »

Edward V Riley wrote:Drakes certainly seem to be the most noble.
That they appear as a noble faction (well dragons are very intelligent creatures) on a campaing doesn't mean their motives against your faction are the same, after all think of this a Naga (snake) meets a faction of rodents who are able to talk. Their instincs will make the Naga devour the rodents but that doesn't mean the Naga is being evil to the rodent because they hate themselves but because they are hungry.

Also, you could have noble intentions and still being evil, It is said that Hell is pavimented with good intentions, because we as occidentals value more the way you use to reach your goals that the end themselves (easter views I think)

After all, If I said as a Drake that I want to make the world a better place to live, it can be either "I want to inspire the rest of creatures to do good things as I do" or "I'll burninate the rest of what I consider wrong so it will turn in a better place.
Edward V Riley wrote:I like the name Steppe orcs. Glad someone else is more awake than I am.
It's already a faction in one of the eras, extended to be precise, and is where I was referring to, in order to do a campaing you are not limited to use the factions you have at your disposal on the maingame (if you add them as custom units, that's it)

Also, to tell a history for a non mainline campaing you also aren't limited to the wesnoth history at all, be it the story of a pup spider on its way to adulthood by eating baby wolfs and goblins on three awesome scenarios.

It's more of what you can thing you can use to show the story.

And finally and out of this quote thing.

Good and Evil is relative to the point of view of each individual, since their beliefs, raising and social "ambiente?" area will incide on them during all stages of their lives, this also includes all you see like TV shows, etc...

That's to say, if a child is raised on a place in which bad words is the most common speech, he will have a hard time to not use them on his everyday conversation unless he works harder than the one raised in a well behaved family.

Same with the morals, etc... all societies post in common the "ideal morals" all want to uphold, but each Faction inside its own society will have divergent views on the rest of those morals, beliefs, etc... or would you think as example an "non believer in god/superior force" consider good couldn't vastly differenciate of one which believes on it?

Stopping ramblings, I consider that having access to a higher number of things allows for more customization of histories and increase the "creativity" of the person doing it, after all creativity is also feed with the know of all the parts and how you chain them together.

If not, look at all those old creatures. Sirens (Brid + human), Centaur (horse + Human), etc... and that is told to be creative things.
"Mysteries are revealed in the light of reason."
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Post by Edward V Riley »

I'm going to now put some fuller ideas for discussion into an Abyss faction. The ideas in here are not to be taken seriously yet. In fact, I want experienced players to tell me where they'd make changes in the "design". Abyss can also mean Underworld or Demon. This one is only the beginning. Give me time to come up with more, but also feel free to propose some yourselves.

Abyss Faction:
Implings-Level 1 creatures- Demons of this type are usually the footsoldiers of the abyss army. Their main purpose is to soften up the enemy so the heavy hitters can do the finishing. They've the potential for magic heat, but are yet too young to use it. Their tiny wings doesn't allow true flight yet.

5-2 claw damage (poison)

Movement base: 5/5
HP base: 35/35
Cost: 15gp
alignment: chaotic
Required XP for level up: 40

Resistances:
Blade- 30%
cold- (-) 20%
fire- 80%
Holy- (-) 100%
Impact- 30%
Pierce- 30%

Terrain Modifiers:
Terrain Movement Cost:
Castle- 50% 1
Snow- 10% 3
Cave Wall-20% 99
Chasm- 20% 99
Mushroom Grove- 70% 1
Shallow Water- 20% 2
Sand- 30% 2
Forest- 60% 1
Grassland- 40% 1
Hills-50% 2
Mountains-60% 3
Deep Water-10% 3
Cave-60% 1
Village-50% 1
Swamp-30% 2



Imps-Level 2-Some implings, through cleverness in combat, become more useful to the abyss faction and thus recieve less abuse from the demon lords. Now more mature, they can utilize a magical heat ranged attack. Their wings now allow for flight, but not for long distances.

6-3 claw damage (poison)
8-2 magical/ Heat strike damage

Movement Base: 5/5
HP base: 45/45
Cost: 28gp
Alignment: Chaotic
Experience for level up: 80

Resistances:
Blade- 30%
cold- (-) 20%
fire- 90%
Holy- (-) 100%
Impact- 30%
Pierce- 30%

Terrain Modifiers:
Terrain Movement Cost:
Castle- 50% 1
Snow- 10% 1
Cave Wall-20% 99
Chasm- 50% 1
Mushroom Grove- 70% 1
Shallow Water-20% 1
Sand- 30% 1
Forest- 60% 1
Grassland- 50% 1
Hills-50% 1
Mountains-60% 1
Deep Water-20% 1
Cave-60% 1
Village-50% 1
Swamp-50% 1


Imp Guardians-Level 3-WIth age, some imps are granted the special status of guardian, usually to guard important treasures or the personal guard of a demon lord. Now seasoned in combat, they've developed abilities that make them truly useful. Their wings are now fully developed allowing for more movement.

9-3 claw damage (poison)
12-3 magical/heat strike damage

Movement Base: 7/7
HP base: 60/60
Cost: N/A
Alignment: Chaotic
Experience for level up: 100(AMLA)

Resistances:
Blade- 40%
cold- (-) 20%
fire- 100%
Holy- (-) 100%
Impact- 40%
Pierce- 50%

Terrain Modifiers:
Terrain Movement Cost:
Castle- 50% 1
Snow- 10% 1
Cave Wall-20% 99
Chasm- 50% 1
Mushroom Grove- 70% 1
Shallow Water- 20% 1
Sand- 30% 1
Forest- 60% 1
Grassland- 50% 1
Hills-50% 1
Mountains-60% 1
Deep Water-10% 1
Cave-60% 1
Village-50% 1
Swamp-50% 1
Last edited by Edward V Riley on September 14th, 2007, 5:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Angry Andersen
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Post by Angry Andersen »

Nice idea overall, here are some things you might consider:

- Why would they have such extreme resistances, esp. to blade, pierce and impact? After all, they're not gargoyles made of stone, right?

- The lvl3 version seems to have very low damage dealing, e.g. some lvl1 units can deal more damage!

- unlike other flying units, defenses here seem to be unaffected by the ability to fly. Does this make sense?
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Post by Edward V Riley »

Abyss Initiate- Those that have displayed tactical intelligence during their youth in the abyss have been given special training allowing them to command abyssal troops. The giving of pain is one of the highlights of their training as well as the recieving of same.

This unit has leadership

Attacks:
Abyssal Whip- 6-2 slash(impact)
Abyssal Barbs-4-2 magical(slows)

Movement base: 6/6
HP base: 40/40
Cost: 19gp
alignment: chaotic
Required XP for level up: 45

Resistances:
Blade- 30%
cold- (-) 20%
fire- 80%
Holy- 20%
Impact- 30%
Pierce- 50%

Terrain Modifiers:
Terrain Movement Cost:
Castle- 50% 1
Snow- 10% 3
Cave Wall-20% 99
Chasm- 20% 99
Mushroom Grove- 70% 1
Shallow Water- 20% 2
Sand- 30% 2
Forest- 50% 1
Grassland- 40% 1
Hills-50% 2
Mountains-60% 3
Deep Water-10% 3
Cave-60% 1
Village-50% 1
Swamp-30% 2

Abyssal Whipmaster- Once past the rigors of being an initiate, select members become more adept at dealing out pain and misery. Suffering is their watch word and what they live to distribute.

This unit has leadership

Attacks:
Abyssal Whip- 8-3 slash(impact)
Abyssal Barbs-6-2 magical(slows)

Movement base: 6/6
HP base: 55/55
Cost: 30gp
alignment: chaotic
Required XP for level up: 65

Resistances:
Blade- 30%
cold- (-) 20%
fire- 90%
Holy- 20%
Impact- 40%
Pierce- 50%

Terrain Modifiers:
Terrain Movement Cost:
Castle- 50% 1
Snow- 10% 3
Cave Wall-20% 99
Chasm- 20% 99
Mushroom Grove- 70% 1
Shallow Water- 20% 2
Sand- 30% 2
Forest- 50% 1
Grassland- 40% 1
Hills-50% 2
Mountains-60% 3
Deep Water-10% 3
Cave-60% 1
Village-50% 1
Swamp-30% 2

Abyssal Lord- These are the select officers of the Abyssal armies. The number of those suffering agony at their hands is beyond counting. All other denizens of the abyss tremble at their approach.

This unit has leadership

Attacks:
Abyssal Whip (barbed)- 11-3 slash(impact)(slows)
Abyssal Barbs-10-2 magical(slows)
Fiery Prod- 15-1 magical

Movement base: 6/6
HP base: 60/60
Cost: N/A
alignment: chaotic
Required XP for level up: n/a 100 for AMLA

Resistances:
Blade- 30%
cold- (-) 20%
fire- 100%
Holy- 20%
Impact- 40%
Pierce- 50%

Terrain Modifiers:
Terrain Movement Cost:
Castle- 50% 1
Snow- 10% 3
Cave Wall-20% 99
Chasm- 20% 99
Mushroom Grove- 70% 1
Shallow Water- 20% 2
Sand- 30% 2
Forest- 50% 1
Grassland- 40% 1
Hills-50% 2
Mountains-60% 3
Deep Water-10% 3
Cave-60% 1
Village-50% 1
Swamp-30% 2
Last edited by Edward V Riley on September 14th, 2007, 5:17 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Post by Edward V Riley »

Angry Andersen wrote:Nice idea overall, here are some things you might consider:

- Why would they have such extreme resistances, esp. to blade, pierce and impact? After all, they're not gargoyles made of stone, right?

- The lvl3 version seems to have very low damage dealing, e.g. some lvl1 units can deal more damage!

- unlike other flying units, defenses here seem to be unaffected by the ability to fly. Does this make sense?
Thank you. This is EXACTLY the kind of feedback I wanted.

How would you change it? As to the low damage dealing, I didn't want anyone to joke about "super characters" or something, hence I guess I was too cautious.
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Edward V Riley
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Post by Edward V Riley »

Just thought of a potential ability for 1 or 2 abyss creatures.

Despair- Those afflicted with this will have their movement halved for one turn. That's it. Keep it simple.

I've edited some changes to the imps. I still kept their terrain modifiers for water intentionally low. They've got to have a weakness somewhere is the reasoning.
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Post by Weeksy »

with those resists, all factions but undead and drakes lose, fair and simple. I'd really reduce them, they just seem incredibly high. Still, would make the perfect foe for a 1.3 undead campaign, as the new arcane changes (ghost's melee and the upcoming arcane attacks of the DA line.)
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Edward V Riley
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Post by Edward V Riley »

Weeksy wrote:with those resists, all factions but undead and drakes lose, fair and simple. I'd really reduce them, they just seem incredibly high. Still, would make the perfect foe for a 1.3 undead campaign, as the new arcane changes (ghost's melee and the upcoming arcane attacks of the DA line.)
I'll work on them. Thanks for the feedback.

....edited. I've now fixed them somewhat.
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Post by Blarumyrran »

no game is complete without a starving swamp goat.
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irrevenant
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Post by irrevenant »

I'm not convinced it's a goat, but that thing's pretty cool...
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Post by Edward V Riley »

Swamp goat looks like a cross between a goat and a Nutria(A destructive rodent in the Louisiana swamps that were imported from another country, then let out of their cage for 'just a second'). Yes, it does look pretty cool.
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Angry Andersen
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Post by Angry Andersen »

Edward V Riley wrote:
Angry Andersen wrote:Nice idea overall, here are some things you might consider:

- Why would they have such extreme resistances, esp. to blade, pierce and impact? After all, they're not gargoyles made of stone, right?

- The lvl3 version seems to have very low damage dealing, e.g. some lvl1 units can deal more damage!

- unlike other flying units, defenses here seem to be unaffected by the ability to fly. Does this make sense?
Thank you. This is EXACTLY the kind of feedback I wanted.

How would you change it? As to the low damage dealing, I didn't want anyone to joke about "super characters" or something, hence I guess I was too cautious.
Cautious:
In terms of damage: yes
In terms of resistances: no

Currently these units seem to be very resilient but deal low damage (esp. lvl3), i.e. they are defensive. Is that how you imagine the faction? I would rather imagine them as being more destructive, e.g. aggressive. Instead of having super resistances to most damage types, try using more usual resistances and adapting the amount of hitpoints. Especially making them so resistant against all 3 physical damage types, which are the most common, seems strange to me.

I think actually playtesting them is the best way to get them working. I haven't done this myself yet, but how hard would it be to make them available in MP for testing? Just use placeholder graphics to begin with.


The "despair" ability is very close to slowing. Why not use slowing but name the attack something that implies that units are slowed by fear?
Steropes
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Post by Steropes »

Imps imo(could be becase of d&d and other similar fantasy I read/play) should be small and more like spyes than big bruthis damge dealers or tanks. Skirmisher?
Edward V Riley
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Post by Edward V Riley »

Currently these units seem to be very resilient but deal low damage (esp. lvl3), i.e. they are defensive. Is that how you imagine the faction? I would rather imagine them as being more destructive, e.g. aggressive. Instead of having super resistances to most damage types, try using more usual resistances and adapting the amount of hitpoints. Especially making them so resistant against all 3 physical damage types, which are the most common, seems strange to me.

I think actually playtesting them is the best way to get them working. I haven't done this myself yet, but how hard would it be to make them available in MP for testing? Just use placeholder graphics to begin with.


The "despair" ability is very close to slowing. Why not use slowing but name the attack something that implies that units are slowed by fear?
I'm naturally an offensive/defensive thinker and I guess it shows, eh? I will work on making the units more offense oriented plus work on the resistances.

I don't want them to be powerful offense due to drakes and undead already taking that up. Offense/Defense mixed seems to be the best way to design them. Perhaps some could be power hitters, and some defense specialists. I'm still working on other units to add. I'm more than amenable to others posting their own ideas for this.

Very good suggestions. Thank you.

Now that the weekend is over(my wife takes over the computer on the weekend) I can get back to working on these.
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