Healing and Curing

[gabe]

I think curing and healing should be done as seperate abilities
it does make sense for them to be connected
but what if I want a unit that can heal poison but not heal damage
or even just heal damage a little bit

I feel the split would add greater flexibility in assigning unit abilities

any takers?

Corrected Subject to "Healing and Curing" --Irrevenant

[zookeeper]

I think poison and healing should be done as seperate abilities
it does make sense for them to be connected

May I ask where the heck did you get the idea they are not separate abilities? Have you ever, you know, looked at how the abilities are defined and used?

[gabe]

sorry I meant healing and curing of poison

yes I have looked at the abilities
spliting them is fairly simple to do as custom abilities

will edit my previous post

[Darn Penguin]

Yeah, why are those abilities squished together?

Wait... I think I see something...

I do! A comma! These are in fact 2 separate abilities!

The reason you tend to see these abilities used together is that they are most useful in conjunction.

[Ultimatum479]

Penguin, he's referring to the process of giving a unit "heals +8" and/or "cures" via WML. Though I haven't looked at it myself, I've heard you can't do one or the other, as they're one ability.

[turin]

He's wrong. They're separate.

They used to be inseparable (and may be in the version gabe is using), but not any more.

[gabe]

I have them working seperate by writting custom versions
it is doable fairly easily

Code: Select all

#define HEALS
	[heals]
		value=4
		id=healing
		affect_allies=yes
		name= _ "heals +4"
		description=  _ "Heals +4: Allows the unit to heal adjacent friendly units at the beginning of each turn.A unit cared for by this healer may heal up to 4 HP per turn, and have poison slowed from taking effect for that turn. A poisoned unit cannot be cured of its poison by a healer, and must seek the care of a village or a unit that can cure."
		affect_self=no
		poison=slowed
		[affect_adjacent]
			adjacent=n,ne,se,s,sw,nw
		[/affect_adjacent]
	[/heals]
#enddef

#define BIG_HEAL
	[heals]
		value=8
		id=healing
		affect_allies=yes
		name= _ "heals +8"
		description=  _ "Heals +8:Allows the unit to heal adjacent friendly units at the beginning of each turn. A unit cared for by this healer may heal up to 8 HP per turn, and have poison slowed from taking effect for that turn. A poisoned unit cannot be cured of its poison by a healer, and must seek the care of a village or a unit that can cure."
		affect_self=no
		poison=slowed
		[affect_adjacent]
			adjacent=n,ne,se,s,sw,nw
		[/affect_adjacent]
	[/heals]	
#enddef

#define CURES
	[heals]
		affect_allies=yes
		id=curing
		name= _ "cures"
		description= _ "Cures: A curer can cure a unit of poison."
		affect_self=no
		poison=cured
		[affect_adjacent]
			adjacent=n,ne,se,s,sw,nw
		[/affect_adjacent]
	[/heals]
#enddef

thats why I asked

[irrevenant]

Gabe, can you please clarify your concern?

"Cures" and "Heals" are certainly separate abilities from the player perspective. Are you referring to something re: use of WML?

[gabe]

"Cures" and "Heals" are certainly separate abilities from the player perspective. Are you referring to something re: use of WML?

while from a players perspective they are seperate abilities they are granted by the edit: macros "ABILITY_HEALS" and "ABILITY_CURES"
where "ABILITY_HEALS" is heals+4
and "ABILITY_CURES" is heals +8 and cures as shown in Darn Penguins post

my idea is to make so that 'heals +8' and 'cures' are granted with seperate edit: macros
as the default stand right now 'heals +8' and 'cures' are granted through the same edit: macro
my idea was to make them granted seperatly as illustrated in the code I posted

this is mainly a concern for people designing units for any reason
as I could see someone who has no wml knowledge wanting a default macro to give only the ability to cure poison or heal+8

this would be something extremely easy to include in the new version of Wesnoth
the abilities all ready display as seperate abilities to the user
so there would be no confusion
with my idea to give the White Mage his current powers in his abilities tag there would be a "ABILITY_BIG_HEAL" (or something like that) and "ABILITY_CURES" instead of "ABILITY_CURES"

this would make it easier to have a unit that can only cure poison and not heal at all
or a unit that is good at healing but can not cure poison

in the code I posted the healing abilities only slow poison and the cure ability only cures poison and provides no healing

as it stands now the abilities are intrinsically(sic) linked
my idea was to make them seperate

[zookeeper]

while from a players perspective they are seperate abilities they are granted by the abilities "ABILITY_HEALS" and "ABILITY_CURES"

Those aren't abilities, they're macros. You know this, but your argument seems to show that you're still not really thinking that way. It should be trivial for an UMC author to do the separation you desire in their UMC, so there's no real need to do that in mainline as mainline doesn't need the separation.

this is mainly a concern for people designing units for any reason
as I could see someone who has no wml knowledge wanting a default macro to give only the ability to cure poison or heal+8

Someone who has no WML knowledge shouldn't be writing unit WML in the first place.

this would be something extremely easy to include in the new version of Wesnoth

Yes. If people really want this it would be easy to do and it doesn't seem to have any particular drawbacks when compared to the way the macros now work. Currently I don't really see the need for the change though.

[gabe]

if that is the case then they should be put on the CABD part of the wiki

EDIT: p.s. you are the best wml person I have ever encountered Everyone does not have your skills that is where my idea originated from

[irrevenant]

while from a players perspective they are seperate abilities they are granted by the abilities "ABILITY_HEALS" and "ABILITY_CURES"

Those aren't abilities, they're macros. You know this, but your argument seems to show that you're still not really thinking that way. It should be trivial for an UMC author to do the separation you desire in their UMC, so there's no real need to do that in mainline as mainline doesn't need the separation.

Given that mainline handles the abilities that way from a player perspective, wouldn't it make sense to organise the macros like that too?

Gabe's not asking for a new ability or anything, he's just requesting that the WML functions be organised to reflect the way that the abilities are actually used in mainline.

Someone who has no WML knowledge shouldn't be writing unit WML in the first place.

I think that's part of the point. Since the abilities exist and are handled flexibly in game, it should just be a matter of a unit designer being able to call the correct macro rather than having to write new code.

[UngeheuerLich]

I think healing and yuring used to be like:

healing: heals 4 hp to units near you, maximum healing per turn 10... no poison cured

cure: heals 8 hp to units nera you, maximum 18? also heals poison.

Now it is:

healing+x: heals x hp on units near you, no poison cured, but stops loss of hp due to poison instead of healing.

cure: removes poison.

Help is not updated so far...

[Soliton]

Help is not updated so far...

Can you be a bit more specific?

[gabe]

here are the mainline macros for heals +4 and heals +8 cures

Code: Select all

#define ABILITY_HEALS
	[heals]
		value=4
		id=healing
		affect_allies=yes
		name= _ "heals +4"
		description=  _ "Heals +4:
Allows the unit to heal adjacent friendly units at the beginning of each turn.

A unit cared for by this healer may heal up to 4 HP per turn, or stop poison from taking effect for that turn.
A poisoned unit cannot be cured of its poison by a healer, and must seek the care of a village or a unit that can cure."
		affect_self=no
		poison=slowed
		[affect_adjacent]
			adjacent=n,ne,se,s,sw,nw
		[/affect_adjacent]
	[/heals]
#enddef

#define ABILITY_CURES
	[heals]
		value=8
		id=healing
		affect_allies=yes
		name= _ "heals +8"
		description= _ "Heals +8:
This unit combines herbal remedies with magic to heal units more quickly than is normally possible on the battlefield.

A unit cared for by this healer may heal up to 8 HP per turn, or stop poison from taking effect for that turn.
A poisoned unit cannot be cured of its poison by a healer, and must seek the care of a village or a unit that can cure."
		affect_self=no
		poison=slowed
		[affect_adjacent]
			adjacent=n,ne,se,s,sw,nw
		[/affect_adjacent]
	[/heals]
	[heals]
		affect_allies=yes
		id=curing
		name= _ "cures"
		description= _ "Cures:
A curer can cure a unit of poison, although that unit will receive no additional healing on the turn it is cured of the poison."
		affect_self=no
		poison=cured
		[affect_adjacent]
			adjacent=n,ne,se,s,sw,nw
		[/affect_adjacent]
	[/heals]
#enddef

curing is done through the same wml tag as healing
the tag is the heals tag

the curing macro has two heals tags so the abilities can have seperate descriptions
it would be easy to make heals +4 have poison curing
all that needs to be done is to set poison=cured

that is how healing and curing currently work in the game