Lich with traits

Blitzmerker · Post by **Blitzmerker** » March 31st, 2007, 7:24 am

Should a Dark Sorcerer lose his traits when advancing to a Lich and get the trait undead?

UngeheuerLich · Post by **UngeheuerLich** » March 31st, 2007, 8:44 am

maybe, it should at least get the trait undead, because he already has this trait (immunity to poison and lifedrain). It would be nice for newer players.

If it loses is traits, he has to be improved a litle bit. maybe +1 ranged damage (so you are not downgraded from 13 to 12 anymore) and maybe even +1 melee damage, because you canÃ‚Â´t get strong anymore.

Another idea would be giving it a melee holy attack, because blunt to cold is a serious downgrade vs undead.

JW · Post by JW » March 31st, 2007, 1:32 pm

UngeheuerLich wrote:If it loses is traits, he has to be improved a litle bit. maybe +1 ranged damage (so you are not downgraded from 13 to 12 anymore) and maybe even +1 melee damage, because you canÃ‚Â´t get strong anymore.

Another idea would be giving it a melee holy attack, because blunt to cold is a serious downgrade vs undead.

????

Also, you do know that you can choose Necromancer to keep Impact melee and higher damage/strike???

Post by **Blarumyrran** » March 31st, 2007, 3:14 pm

JW wrote:Also, you do know that you can choose Necromancer to keep Impact melee and higher damage/strike???

yea, but who can resist upgrading to the cool-looking skeletal king instead of the silly human?

also, i have an interesting theory why UngeheuerLich is a bit biased towards skeletal beings...

UngeheuerLich · Post by **UngeheuerLich** » April 1st, 2007, 1:51 pm

JW wrote:
UngeheuerLich wrote:If it loses is traits, he has to be improved a litle bit. maybe +1 ranged damage (so you are not downgraded from 13 to 12 anymore) and maybe even +1 melee damage, because you canÃ‚Â´t get strong anymore.

Another idea would be giving it a melee holy attack, because blunt to cold is a serious downgrade vs undead.
????

Also, you do know that you can choose Necromancer to keep Impact melee and higher damage/strike???

yes, i know, but taking away traits IS a nerv, ithought something up to compensate... and I thought a holy melee would be nice, because it helps in undead vs undead matches, but its LVL 3 so it really doesnÃ‚Â´t matter

JW · Post by JW » April 2nd, 2007, 3:43 am

UngeheuerLich wrote:yes, i know, but taking away traits IS a nerv, ithought something up to compensate... and I thought a holy melee would be nice, because it helps in undead vs undead matches, but its LVL 3 so it really doesnÃ‚Â´t matter

See 1.3.x Ghost.

UngeheuerLich · Post by **UngeheuerLich** » April 2nd, 2007, 8:59 pm

JW wrote:
UngeheuerLich wrote:yes, i know, but taking away traits IS a nerv, ithought something up to compensate... and I thought a holy melee would be nice, because it helps in undead vs undead matches, but its LVL 3 so it really doesnÃ‚Â´t matter
See 1.3.x Ghost.

yes, i know about the ghost...

and i speak of changing it in 1.3...

could you please stop it JW.

I just thought why not use ALSO Holy melee drain with lich. unlikely it unbalances everything but also helps vs undead, although as you said, the Necromancer has a god weapon vs undead already.

and i vote for giving the undead trait to the lich as he already has it. and i donÃ‚Â´t mind taking away traits from it, but it weakens him and there has to be some kind of compensation. And since a Lich Leader has no traits and you seldom see another Lich in mp, i thought about a slight buff which doesnÃ‚Â´t unbalance anything, and IF you happen to fight against another undead you have a good weapon.

Blitzmerker · Post by **Blitzmerker** » April 2nd, 2007, 9:51 pm

I think the Lich should lose at least his quick trait because a Lich with 7 MPs would be a bit too fast; he is already faster then the Necromancer.

Theo · Post by **Theo** » April 2nd, 2007, 10:07 pm

I've always thought that by becoming a Lich, one loses all aspects of their humanity and becomes a slave to the dark arts, so it would make sense that one would lose their individual traits as well.

Traits, while few in variety, do define some amount of personality.

Martinus · Post by **Martinus** » April 10th, 2007, 1:03 am

UngeheuerLich wrote:maybe, it should at least get the trait undead, because he already has this trait (immunity to poison and lifedrain). It would be nice for newer players.

If it loses is traits, he has to be improved a litle bit. maybe +1 ranged damage (so you are not downgraded from 13 to 12 anymore) and maybe even +1 melee damage, because you canÃ‚Â´t get strong anymore.

Another idea would be giving it a melee holy attack, because blunt to cold is a serious downgrade vs undead.

And would seriously downgrade fighting liches vs drakes AND other units to a lesser (but significant) degree. Liches are fine as they are. Undead vs undead battles rarely have liches anywa, so who cares? New players should get more experience before giving such statements;)

Post by **turin** » April 10th, 2007, 1:08 am

Giving Liches the "undead" trait upon advancement should be done for aesthetic purposes - the practical effect already exists, so we should follow the established convention by giving them the trait as well.

I think taking away traits when they advance isn't a horrible idea, but it also sort of makes sense for them to keep them. I doubt it would have much of a balancing effect either way.

tw · Post by tw » April 10th, 2007, 8:47 am

Theo wrote:I've always thought that by becoming a Lich, one loses all aspects of their humanity and becomes a slave to the dark arts, so it would make sense that one would lose their individual traits as well.

Traits, while few in variety, do define some amount of personality.

Weren't people ruled over by Liches in the Green Isle or something? Which suggests they must have some "aspects of their humanity" remaining.

Post by **zookeeper** » April 10th, 2007, 8:55 am

I've never really though that in becoming a lich one would lose his personality or his personal traits. If a lich was a mindless creature like a WC, why would anyone ever become one voluntarily? Surely necromancers and other mages try to attain something they otherwise couldn't for themselves by becoming a lich. I don't see a lich as serving the "dark arts"/whatever, but commanding.

EDIT: Of course it's ok to state that during that long immortality, one gradually loses all of his original personality. When you first transform into a lich, sure, you're all like "buhahaha I have teh power now I shall get revenge etc etc" but after a few hundred years of undeath and solitude you're probably quite indifferent to whatever aspirations your former self might have once had.

Post by **Mist** » April 10th, 2007, 8:58 am

I agree, but...
Except for inteligent and fearless, the traits in the game are physical, and becoming a lich invloves total transformation for the body. As long as there won't be distinction between physical and mental traits there shouldn't be a possibility to inherit them.

Theo · Post by **Theo** » April 10th, 2007, 10:12 pm

zookeeper wrote:I've never really though that in becoming a lich one would lose his personality or his personal traits. If a lich was a mindless creature like a WC, why would anyone ever become one voluntarily? Surely necromancers and other mages try to attain something they otherwise couldn't for themselves by becoming a lich. I don't see a lich as serving the "dark arts"/whatever, but commanding.

EDIT: Of course it's ok to state that during that long immortality, one gradually loses all of his original personality. When you first transform into a lich, sure, you're all like "buhahaha I have teh power now I shall get revenge etc etc" but after a few hundred years of undeath and solitude you're probably quite indifferent to whatever aspirations your former self might have once had.

Not mindless. It's just that they would lose sense of morality and compassion for others etc. Power is what matters to them.