Kill um all!

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podunk
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Kill um all!

Post by podunk »

There are times when our allies in the game are more hindrance than help. In fact of the official campaigns I've played Elves Besieged and Blackwater Port in HttT are the only ones where allies sort of come in handy.

My loyal Iron Mauler died last night because a 8 gold farmer was in between my army and the assassin with 1 hit point that stuck a fork in him. He had gotten in trouble holding a spot with ZOC while I broke the Orcs southern line.

I'd rushed north and killed everything around him but that 1 orc - and I had 3 units that could get there for the rescue but the farmer was in the way.

We need to be able to frag our "allies." :-) If we could kill the ally units in the way not only could we advance our units faster (we've all had "our" kills stolen by them) but many scenes would be completed faster (thinking Lost General for one, it takes forever for the trolls to kill the blue guys).

Plus, it would fun! I'm really developing a preference for chaotic units, it would fit my style of play perfectly.
Tux2B
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Post by Tux2B »

It is true that your allies can be more hindering than anything else, when you play a campaign (like in Legend of Wesmere, when you have to rescue Olurf from trolls and orcs and that he always wants to get killed by the what used to be yellow orcs north). But I think that it adds a challenge in the gameplay, though if this isn't what the campaign's author wants, then your ally should be controled by yourself.

Which means that I don't think it is a useful idea, and it would change the gameplay too much. I think that your problem with that iron mauler should be fixed by modifying the scenario, not by modifying the gameplay.
"There are two kind of campaign strategies : the good and the bad ones. The good ones almost always fail because of unforeseen consequences that make the bad ones succeed." -- Napoleon
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Baufo
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Post by Baufo »

I think it is a part of strategie to carfully think about which unit should get a one of the free hexs next to another wounded unit in MP but I can understand what you are talking about. That's just one more reason for playing rather MP games than MP. I agree it is annoying but I think it would affect MP far too much (attacking wounded units with other wounded units to get more free hexs around them on your allies turns would become an important part of strategie).

Edit: Tux2B beat me posting this saying nearly exatly the same :)
Last edited by Baufo on September 5th, 2006, 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JW
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Re: Kill um all!

Post by JW »

podunk wrote:My loyal Iron Mauler died last night
This made me shed a tear. :cry:
We need to be able to frag our "allies." :-) If we could kill the ally units in the way not only could we advance our units faster
Yes...yes! I have fallen in love with this philosophy. Using others to your advantage and them get rid of them when you don't need them! This way you can steal their power without having to give anything in return.
Plus, it would fun! I'm really developing a preference for chaotic units, it would fit my style of play perfectly.
Yes, I can imagine killing your friends would be fun.
[size=0]Now shall I insert the sarcasm tag, or will it be obvious?[/size]
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Post by Tux2B »

I don't think podunk is speaking about killing your MP allies, but only about killing your allies in campaigns.
"There are two kind of campaign strategies : the good and the bad ones. The good ones almost always fail because of unforeseen consequences that make the bad ones succeed." -- Napoleon
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Baufo
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Post by Baufo »

Tux2B wrote:I don't think podunk is speaking about killing your MP allies, but only about killing your allies in campaigns.
Would not different rules for MP and campaigns make the game far too complicated and violate KISS?
I was working on the proof of one of my poems all the morning, and took out a comma. In the afternoon I put it back again. -- Oscar Wilde
Tux2B
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Post by Tux2B »

Baufo wrote:
Tux2B wrote:I don't think podunk is speaking about killing your MP allies, but only about killing your allies in campaigns.
Would not different rules for MP and campaigns make the game far too complicated and violate KISS?
It would. And I wasn't suggesting it. But it is one more reason why this isn't a good idea.
"There are two kind of campaign strategies : the good and the bad ones. The good ones almost always fail because of unforeseen consequences that make the bad ones succeed." -- Napoleon
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Chris NS
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Post by Chris NS »

Konrad killing his lifelong elven comrades because they were pissing him off somehow doesn't seem to fit into his character.
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JW
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Post by JW »

Chris NS wrote:Konrad killing his lifelong elven comrades because they were pissing him off somehow doesn't seem to fit into his character.
That's your interpretation.
[size=0]Again, I'm including this mysterious hidden text in case anyone needs to know that I'm using sarcasm as a way to point out how silly this idea is.[/size]
podunk
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Post by podunk »

quote:
Yes...yes! I have fallen in love with this philosophy. Using others to your advantage and them get rid of them when you don't need them! This way you can steal their power without having to give anything in return.
and
Yes, I can imagine killing your friends would be fun.
end

There are historical parallels. I mean look at Argentina, I'm sure George has plans for them once he finishes his other little adventures. And I said allies, not friends, and there is difference! I'd bet England could invade California under Blair, but the next election the liberals win I bet George will make plans for the north sea oil fields. :-)

a quote:
Konrad killing his lifelong elven comrades because they were pissing him off somehow doesn't seem to fit into his character.
end.

Come on now – this is the guy that vows to lop off some babes head the second he sees her. No trial by jury, no life without parole, just whop! off with her head. Not to mention “our loyal troops will protect us, the only ones who need to make it across the battlefield alive are you and I...� So much for the lifelong comrades! :-D

I'm sure the devs wouldn't put this in. I mean it'd be ridiculous to give Xp for fragging your allies, and changing the game engine to cope with that would likely be a major undertaking.

It sure would be satisfying sometimes though.
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Post by Soliton »

If your AI ally aggravates you use the :droid command on it.
"If gameplay requires it, they can be made to live on Venus." -- scott
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Cuyo Quiz
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Post by Cuyo Quiz »

JW wrote:
Chris NS wrote:Konrad killing his lifelong elven comrades because they were pissing him off somehow doesn't seem to fit into his character.
That's your interpretation.
[size=0]Again, I'm including this mysterious hidden text in case anyone needs to know that I'm using sarcasm as a way to point out how silly this idea is.[/size]
Kings kill their "allies" all the time.

Zero size is savage tech btw.
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Chris NS
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Post by Chris NS »

Kings kill their "allies" all the time.
Yes, but I thought this was what made Konrad the good guy and Asheviere and co the baddies.
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Post by Dragon Master »

I think it would be easier to change scenarios in a way that:
A) you control your allies' units. The leader is still free, and you can't recruit, the AI does.
B) You are in direct control of your allies' units. I realize in some scenarios this wouldn't work, but it can be modified to fit.

Note that in both circumstances, you do not get to keep your allies' units on your recall list.
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Re: Kill um all!

Post by scott »

podunk wrote:Plus, it would fun! I'm really developing a preference for chaotic units, it would fit my style of play perfectly.
Then change the campaign to suit your tastes (and publish it on the campaign server if you want to). I'm not rewriting it for everybody.

Edit: A version of HTTT with a "morality-challenged" Konrad might be popular if you published it. Who knows?
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