Multiple Weapon Types

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Dragon Master
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Multiple Weapon Types

Post by Dragon Master » August 31st, 2006, 10:21 am

Has this been done before? In my time on the forums I haven't seen it suggested and it's not an FPI to my knowledge. Basically, do multiple attack types (blade, impact, fire, etc.) screw with resistences? Do you get extra extra attack if you attack a skelly with an impact fire attack? Do you get even less damage if you attack the skelly with cold pierce? I'd like to know since I'm trying to find ideas to make my Holy Knights stand out.

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Post by kshinji » August 31st, 2006, 11:09 am

I tought its yet impossible, and as such, there is no answer to your questions regarding resistances against mtypes weapons.

But maybe i dunno about something? :shock:
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zookeeper
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Post by zookeeper » August 31st, 2006, 11:32 am

Attacks can't (currently, and I guess for a long time still) have multiple damage types. How multiple damage types with the same weapon should now be done (look at merman triton for an example) is to create two identical attacks with different damage types.

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Post by Jgrr » August 31st, 2006, 11:35 am

Isn't this doable in WML?

I mean: can you create an additional damage type "combo", and adjust the receiving unit's combo resistance on the time of the attack?

A simple way to calculate combined damage would be: combo resistance = resistance 1 * resistance 2. For an unit with 50% cold resist, and 50% pierce resist, the attack would do 25% damage.

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zookeeper
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Post by zookeeper » August 31st, 2006, 11:39 am

Jgrr wrote:Isn't this doable in WML?

I mean: can you create an additional damage type "combo", and adjust the receiving unit's combo resistance on the time of the attack?

A simple way to calculate combined damage would be: combo resistance = resistance 1 * resistance 2. For an unit with 50% cold resist, and 50% pierce resist, the attack would do 25% damage.
Yeah, I think you could do that if you really wanted do.

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Post by irrevenant » August 31st, 2006, 12:01 pm

I suggest that it would be useful if Wesnoth supported this.

The classic case is the Paladin's sword. It is Holy, which makes it very handy against undead, but against most unarmoured living foes, it's much less effective than a standard blade. If it could be made both blade and holy, and automatically use the most effective of the two, that would resolve the oddity.

A similar logic applies to the flaming sword, flaming arrows etc.

P.S. This idea has been discussed before, but I don't believe it came to a conclusion.

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Post by silveroxide » August 31st, 2006, 12:11 pm

Wouldn't it be much easier to have two different attacks to choose from? In case of Paladin, there won't be many circumstances where you will really want a mixture of blade and holy damage in one turn, so you could just add another type of attack and let the player choose.

Edit: Just realised, orcish archer units work in this way between fire and pierce.

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Post by zookeeper » August 31st, 2006, 12:21 pm

silveroxide wrote:Edit: Just realised, orcish archer units work in this way between fire and pierce.
Except that the two attacks are actually very different, in addition to having different damage types.

If "hybrid damage types" were supported, it'd probably work exactly like the multiple versions of the same attacks work now - the more effective one would be chosen automatically (currently on offense the worse one can be chosen too). Of course, it would be more convenient to just write type=blade/fire in the attack definition instead of duplicating the whole attack just to change the damage type.

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Post by silveroxide » August 31st, 2006, 1:32 pm

But sometimes you want a unit to do less damage, e.g. when you are weakening it so another unit can take the xp.

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Post by scott » August 31st, 2006, 1:54 pm

silveroxide wrote:But sometimes you want a unit to do less damage, e.g. when you are weakening it so another unit can take the xp.
In which case I think the official position would be tough luck and use a weaker unit. How would a Paladin attack a skeleton with a holy sword and "turn off" the holy? For some weapons, like the halberd, it might make sense to keep 2 attacks since the two attacks require 2 separate motions instead of a single motion that has 2 effects.

This idea has to be one of the oldest unimplemented-but-not-rejected ideas around. The first BWH you might say.
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Post by Jgrr » August 31st, 2006, 1:57 pm

silveroxide wrote:But sometimes you want a unit to do less damage, e.g. when you are weakening it so another unit can take the xp.
If this was to be supported fully, you should also have to:
* choose if you were to attack 1, 2, 3, 4 times with your Swordsman
or even:
* choose, after each attack, if you still wanted to do another attack or not!

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Post by kshinji » August 31st, 2006, 2:06 pm

Id say that if attack have got several attack types, the resistances should be added to themselves. There is no fantasy explanation, but the reasoning is that it wouldve made it different from just two separate attacks.

Fe. Firesword would do fire/blade damage, and if opponent was resiatnt to fire and weak to blade or rverse, it would result in 0. But if he was weak to both, it would result in him taking not +30% damage, but fe. +60%.
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JW
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Post by JW » August 31st, 2006, 2:17 pm

The thing it would be useful for would be for combined damage, not seperate damages. Example:

Firesword:
done currently - 8-3 Fire
and perhaps - 8-3 Blade as a secondary option

done with combined damage - (4.4)-3 Blade.Fire
meaning 4 points from Blade and 4 from Fire on each of the 3 strikes.

Against Wose, old way: Fire; 12-3
Against Wose, new way: Blade/Fire; 10-3
Against Silver Mage, old way: Blade; 8-3
Against Silver Mage, new way: Blade/Fire; 6-3



Granted, this would probably be difficult to implement, difficult to display, and provide little difference in gameplay for the effort - BUT if you were to go down the path of doing this, this is the idea you'd want to implement, and you'd want to be able to implement it with X damage types, meaning an attack could have an arbitrary number of damage types > 0.

It's so not worth the effort btw, even if it would be cool.

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Post by Lord_Aether » August 31st, 2006, 6:53 pm

You could have separate abilities for the two methods explained here. For instance:

For the Paladin, you would have the most effective attack always chosen in combat automatically.

For a flaming sword, perhaps pool the effects together so you are dealing two types of damage against two resistances.
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Post by Dragon Master » August 31st, 2006, 7:41 pm

So far IMO the best way to handle resistence would be the total of both resistences, so if a unit had 30% resistence to fire and -20% resisitence to blade, it would have a total of 10% reisistence to a fire blade attack

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