More than one type of village

Prognosis · Post by **Prognosis** » July 19th, 2006, 12:38 am

I hope that this isn't a FPI/BWH, if I missed it in the lists, I apologize.

I'm interested in seeing more than one type or level of village in game. Most units have 3 levels, but there is only 1 level of village - which doesn't really make sense in my opinion, because towns can range from isolated settlements to small villages to full blown cities with castles and so on.

For example, all villages heal 8hp/turn but a large city with fully staffed hospitals ought to be able to recover units faster than a lone farmhouse.

All villages provide 2gp/turn, but again, a major city ought to contribute more gold than a small town.

This idea seems to be already impelemented to some degree - 'cities' are made by placing a lot of towns in a small area. But there still is a limit on the resources that each hex gives. Given a choice between taking one of two towns on a map, there currently is nothing to give an advantage between the two except the terrain surrounding the town. The town itself is no basis of comparison. I think adding different types of towns would give the player an added incentive to take the town and not just the land surrounding it.

ILikeProgramming · Post by **ILikeProgramming** » July 19th, 2006, 12:53 am

Healing can already be done with terrain WML.

As for giving more gold, this may give one side advantage (big village is closer) or give the player with better scouts more gold. And how do you tell the computer to value some villages above others?

Dragon Master · Post by **Dragon Master** » July 19th, 2006, 1:09 am

Well, if there were different "levels" of villages, like cities as you suggested, they wouldn't all be called "Villages" now would they? Go ahead and make your own "city" with the WML implemented, it's up to you.

toms · Post by **toms** » July 19th, 2006, 5:27 am

Cities are always done when making the map by placing a couple of villages on the same area.

JW · Post by JW » July 19th, 2006, 5:41 am

Dragon Master wrote:Well, if there were different "levels" of villages, like cities as you suggested, they wouldn't all be called "Villages" now would they? Go ahead and make your own "city" with the WML implemented, it's up to you.

I might do this if it's possible actually...

Post by **Viliam** » July 19th, 2006, 9:04 am

To make a town:

Place a couple of villages next to each other.
Over-draw them with a multi-hex town bitmap.
Make a WML code to give all the villages to the same side, if only that side has units in the town.

(When unit captures a part of town, it should capture the whole town. However, during battle there may be units of different sides in the same town; the last one standing should receive the whole town.)
(The engine will place flags on the top of your multi-hex town bitmap, so it should be designed to support this.)

Would this work? If yes, it could have the advantage that AI will understand the importance of villages.

Prometheus · Post by **Prometheus** » July 19th, 2006, 10:18 am

Why stop with differant kinds of villages?

Silver mine- gold

but no healing
Gold mine- even more gold but no healing
Fountain of healing- healing but no gold
School- experience points but less gold
Casino- blinking lights but less gold, unless you get a lucky roll, in which case you get more gold but lose hp from hangovers.

OK, maybe not that last one, but that's the idea. No doubt these can all be implemented in WML, but this is easier said than done. How about a repository of WML scripts and images for buildings?

Post by **fmunoz** » July 19th, 2006, 10:42 am

Dave wrote: * There should be different/more types of resources and types of buildings that provide them
Background: people suggest different types of resources (e.g. lumber) and buildings that provide them (e.g. lumbermill, gold mine which gives lots of gold, towns, healing fountains)
Result: the idea of Wesnoth is not to be about resources. The resource system is intentionally as simple as possible. Some special buildings like healing fountains could be placed by a scenario designer at their discretion.

This thread seems asking to be closed

Post by **irrevenant** » July 19th, 2006, 11:01 am

I think it would be cool to make art for 'cities' that are represented as 7 (?) adjacent villages. Having adjacent villages would bog down play of course, but that might be what you want for some maps.

Incidentally, I think some of the village art (eg. the tall chuch-looking one) looks more dramatic and impressive than a standard village which is a bit misleading; I keep expecting it to do more.

Fmunoz, I actually don't think this thread violates that FPI. That FPI is about not introducing new resource types. ie. not giving Wesnoth a more complicated resource model (like in Warcraft or HoMM). Dave made a design decision that Wesnoth would focus on the battlefield, not on gathering resources. The proposed idea is a minor tweak of how income of the existing resource (gold) is handled; it wouldn't change Wesnoth's focus in any way.

Jgrr · Post by **Jgrr** » July 19th, 2006, 11:32 am

Prometheus wrote:Why stop with differant kinds of villages?

Silver mine- gold but no healing
Gold mine- even more gold but no healing
Fountain of healing- healing but no gold
School- experience points but less gold
Casino- blinking lights but less gold, unless you get a lucky roll, in which case you get more gold but lose hp from hangovers.

OK, maybe not that last one, but that's the idea. No doubt these can all be implemented in WML, but this is easier said than done. How about a repository of WML scripts and images for buildings?

More wild ideas:

Bathhouse/sauna - cures poison but no other benefit
Cemetery - spawn walking corpses on the side of the controller
Unit "factory" - allow recruitment of specific type units, requires the leader to be in the factory
Hospital/temple - faster healing for gold
"Meat factory" - lose hp but gain gold
Weapons factory - better weapons for specific type units, costs gold
Farmhouse - upkeep only but not gold
Bonfire - illuminates
...

toms · Post by **toms** » July 19th, 2006, 5:54 pm

This is now the FPI stuff.

Generally, a WICOT idea.(see Viliams post) As it will probably never get in game, you can just use it by making a scenario/campaign using it.

<X> Pillager · Post by **<X> Pillager** » July 19th, 2006, 5:58 pm

This is definitely an FPI, even if it is not on the list. In any case, I think it is actually covered under the FPI fmunoz cited. The idea that 'The resource system is intentionally as simple as possible' does not only remove the possibility of multiple resources, but it means that there should be few ways of getting resources (only villages and scenario events, which don't really count) and few ways of using resources (only recruiting, recalling and upkeep).

scott · Post by **scott** » July 19th, 2006, 6:01 pm

I generally agree, but if we can shake down fmuÃƒÂ±oz for some multi-hex villages, it might be worth it.

FleshPeeler · Post by **FleshPeeler** » July 19th, 2006, 7:35 pm

How about scrapping the idea of altering gold income, but keep rolling with the suggestion of added benefits? Personally I've been toying with the thought of suggesting a mercenary's camp somehow, but I didn't know exactly how I wanted to present it. This suggestion seems it could fit that purpose as well as introduce others . . .

All specialty towns give the SAME amount of resources and healing. Those two things are static. It may provide other benefits . . .
Mercenary Camp: New units are available to you from the Recruit menu as long as you control this town, but these units demand double upkeep.
Training School/Dojo: When a unit fights from this town, statically give +2XP per battle on top of regular XP.
Lighthouse: Illuminates (This comes straight out of HttT).
Walled Village: +10% terrain defense (maximum 70%).
Turrets: +1 damage from occupant, -1 damage from attackers.

Other possibilities could work so long as they grant the same benefits of a normal town as well as some added bonuses.

Ethan · Post by **Ethan** » July 19th, 2006, 7:50 pm

Prometheus, Jgrr and FleshPeeler post do create a FPI.
But the idea having of having multi-hex village is graphically not a FPI (IMHO), and the fact of taking all village id the unit that move into the village is the only one in the city shouldn't be that hard to implement.

However, I would be satisfied with only the graphical part. We don't need to create additional rule. The game engine provide already enough advantage for such area. A 7 hex city mean you could remove a unit from the front even when circled. (If a swap function between two unit is implemented, that is. ) And all units will have healing and high defense ratio.