Retirement

[neroden]

So I've sometimes found myself in the following position in a scenario:

(1) I've leveled up some units
(2) I don't really want to put them into battle any more in this scenario
(3) Oh well.

This has happened to me in some cases where the gold balance was very tight. I would have liked to just walk my high-level units off the map and stop paying for them, but I couldn't. Instead, I had to try to find a safe place to stash them until the scenario ended, and pay for them every turn. In some cases I lost them *and* ran out of money. :-/

You can recruit and recall. Why not be able to retire a unit: take him out of the scenario and put him back in the recallable list? This would make it somewhat easier to stash resources for the next scenario in a campaign. It wouldn't really unbalance any scenarios.

It would be abusive to be able to pull units out right before they get killed, so some restriction to avoid that would be needed, but that should be feasible. I would limit "retire" to being performed while the unit was in a castle and the leader was in the corresponding keep, exactly the reverse of 'recall' and 'recruit'. (It should also be disableable on a per-scenario basis, of course, for instance for 'defend the castle to the last man' scenarios.)

[Flametrooper]

Why wouldn't you want to use your leveled units to start pwning things?

[Rhuvaen]

You can recruit and recall. Why not be able to retire a unit: take him out of the scenario and put him back in the recallable list?

No veteran likes to leave during the middle of a fight. Just look at the faces of the players in the FIFA world championships when they get replaced during a game. It just doesn't make sense to retire a unit especially if there is still danger...

I also wouldn't like the effect on gameplay. One skill of a player is to level units, another is to protect them or use them wisely. It just puts a wrong emphasis on being too attached to an elite group of units.

Also, if you put them back in the recall list, what's going to prevent you from immediately recalling them (insta-heal, 20 gold please!)?

[Zhukov]

To answer Flame's question, you might want the XP to go elsewhere.

As for the proposal, I am undecided. I have often thought about how something like this could be implemented, but there was always some way to abuse it. Neroden pointed out the obvious example, being able to pull near-dead units out of combat.

The best I can come up with is that when units level-up they could keep their old upkeep cost for the rest of the scenario. Of course, if you recall them in the next scenario you pay full upkeep. Unfortunately this could prove undesirable in multiplayer.

Overall, I don't think the current situation needs to be changed in any way.

If it works, don't muck with it.

[Viliam]

Also, if you put them back in the recall list, what's going to prevent you from immediately recalling them (insta-heal, 20 gold please!)?

There could be the rule that if you retire a unit, you cannot recall it in the same scenario. (Retired units would be put in separate stack during scenario.) Of course player could recall some similar unit instead...

[JW]

Make it cost 5 gold to retire a unit in a castle with the leader in the keep and make him non-recallable until the next scenario.

As to how feasible this is to code, I have no idea. I believe it is balanced though.

-edit-

as to whether or not I like the idea...

...::shrugs::...

[ozymandias]

Might be abused in defense scenarios... you could conceivably recruit units, retire them when heavily wounded and recall/recruit new ones in their place. With the right gold cost, that would be less feasible. 5 doesn't sound bad. Still, other than in a situation like that, I haven't felt the need for something like this before.

If you want xp for other units, use the leveled for the first attack, and let the rookies have the kill... pretty basic Wesnoth tactics, if slightly constraining your options. But then it's all about meaningful choices, isn't it?

[Darth Fool]

This is an FPI, or should be even if it is not listed in the official list. A quick search on the word "retire" or "dismiss" will reveal a few of the discussions (dismiss has a lot more unrelated finds as people seem not to want to "dismss" ideas out of hand). The idea has been around since at least 2003.

The general concensus has been that not being able to dismiss a unit is part of the game. It forces you to consider who you are recruiting and how many, and not just flood the game with expensive units.

If such a feature were ever enabled, it probably would be restricted to taking place on your castle with your leader in the keep, and the unit being required to be at full health, and maybe with a gold penalty. But with all these restrictions, are you really going to use it that often? probably not. You are better off taking the unit who is probably closer to the enemy than to your home base, and using him to achieve victory sooner so you get the bonus for ending early.

[scott]

This has been soundly rejected in the past and will continue to be so in the future.

[JW]

(First time I heard of it. )

[Darth Fool]

(First time I heard of it. )

last discussion was ~ August 2005.

[Dragon Master]

Retire doesn't sound like taking a unit temporarily out of battle, I would call that "respite". If I "retired" a unit, I would expect it to never come back, which does have advantages (no upkeep), but would you really retire lvl2 or 3 units? I can see it working for units you've recruited but have no use for, but this is a large waste of cash.

[Zhukov]

It's possible to dismiss units from your recall list...but I don't think that's what you mean.

[Dragon Master]

it wasn't, I meant you could move units to your castle with a leader in the keep, and basically "kill" them. Useful since you can't attack your own units, yet hardly ever needs to be used

[Rhuvaen]

It's possible to dismiss units from your recall list...but I don't think that's what you mean.

Retire doesn't sound like taking a unit temporarily out of battle, I would call that "respite". If I "retired" a unit, I would expect it to never come back, which does have advantages (no upkeep)

Actually, when you send someone into retirement you do keep paying them for past services. When you dismiss them, you don't .

Although it would be great if Konrad could simply tell Delfador to retire after hearing the story from the elven lady Parandra.