Bonus for "phalanx" style formations with certain
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Bonus for "phalanx" style formations with certain
This may have been suggested before, so please tell me if it has.
The idea for a new ability that would be useful for spearmen or something.
Basically, The unit gains a five or ten percent bonus to defense or damage for each allied unit with the ability in an adjacent hex.
The ability does not function if the unit has more enemies than allies adjacent to it.
Additionally a unit benefiting from this ability suffers a movement penalty.
This would allow for players to "reformat" their unit structure in order to make it more powerful but less maneuverable. They would get the bonus, but they would also have to deal with things like wheels and turns.
it would also increase the effectveness of a flank/rear attack against a person using this tactic.
In conclusion I believe this ability would increase a player's options before battle is joined. It provides sizeable bonuses, but equally large drawbacks.
Please tell me what you think.
The idea for a new ability that would be useful for spearmen or something.
Basically, The unit gains a five or ten percent bonus to defense or damage for each allied unit with the ability in an adjacent hex.
The ability does not function if the unit has more enemies than allies adjacent to it.
Additionally a unit benefiting from this ability suffers a movement penalty.
This would allow for players to "reformat" their unit structure in order to make it more powerful but less maneuverable. They would get the bonus, but they would also have to deal with things like wheels and turns.
it would also increase the effectveness of a flank/rear attack against a person using this tactic.
In conclusion I believe this ability would increase a player's options before battle is joined. It provides sizeable bonuses, but equally large drawbacks.
Please tell me what you think.
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Some consider this system outmoded.
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Some consider this system outmoded.
This was not preordained
Gary Gygax explained,
"My box of Crayolas exploded."
This has been proposed many times, and virtually aways rejected as a mianline ability. The fact is that bunching your units together (i.e. putting them in a phalanx) already grants advantages and disadvantages. So an ability to magnify these advantages is not really neccesary.
However, I think (not sure though) that the Lavinians have something like this. They are a User Made Faction (UMF). You might want to ask Turin about this.
However, I think (not sure though) that the Lavinians have something like this. They are a User Made Faction (UMF). You might want to ask Turin about this.
Yep. The Lavinian Legionnaire, Propugnator and Praetorian Guard have a 'formation' special that basically does this.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
Really?. Could you describe it specifically?.turin wrote:Yep. The Lavinian Legionnaire, Propugnator and Praetorian Guard have a 'formation' special that basically does this.
Also, why do they have it?. By background, they are supposed to be in an open formation, and most of the defense they get is from their armour/shield. By gameplay, i feel they are mighty enough, slow attack and all.
Cuyo Quiz,where madness meets me 
Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004
Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004
Basically, they get +10% resistance to blade, pierce and impact for each formationing unit next to them.Cuyo Quiz wrote:Really?. Could you describe it specifically?.
I thought they were originally intended to have it - but i can remove it if they're not, and save it for the Dardanoi Hoplites.Cuyo Quiz wrote:Also, why do they have it?. By background, they are supposed to be in an open formation, and most of the defense they get is from their armour/shield. By gameplay, i feel they are mighty enough, slow attack and all.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
AFAIK, the discussion of a formation ability extended to two things: what are the requirements/workings of the bonus (proximity, sorrounding, fitting unit with specialized equipment for formations), and the effects (more defense or more resistances, maybe both).turin wrote:I thought they were originally intended to have it - but i can remove it if they're not, and save it for the Dardanoi Hoplites.
I would rather have a formation ability only for those that actually held equipment for formations (hoplites, pikemen, etc). How moddable is the ability?, Legionnaires may after all deserve some bonus for their orderly fashion of fighting.
IMO it should add defense instead of resistances, since your armour doesn't get harder but you do get some additional cover from the guy next to you. It should be easier to detect by players also, since you would see the unit's defense change, but i don't know if this is easily feasible (changing defenses).
Also, why i do not see any "special note" about this in the descriptions, or a proper pop-up something for the ability?.
ARGGHHH, long, work-augmenting, argumentative post
.Cuyo Quiz,where madness meets me
Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004
Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004
Makes sense; I don't have a problem with removing it from the Legionnaire line (they're powerful enough already).Cuyo Quiz wrote:I would rather have a formation ability only for those that actually held equipment for formations (hoplites, pikemen, etc). How moddable is the ability?, Legionnaires may after all deserve some bonus for their orderly fashion of fighting.
Dunno if that's possible, or if it is a good idea even if it is.Cuyo Quiz wrote:IMO it should add defense instead of resistances, since your armour doesn't get harder but you do get some additional cover from the guy next to you. It should be easier to detect by players also, since you would see the unit's defense change, but i don't know if this is easily feasible (changing defenses).
Well, it's SVN only.Cuyo Quiz wrote:Also, why i do not see any "special note" about this in the descriptions, or a proper pop-up something for the ability?.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
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CaptainChaos
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- Location: Bavaria
Once again one idiot comes with the same idea:
I found two threads (including this) talking about an ability which just came to my mind, and I would call "Phalanx".
As it would mean, giving a bonus in defense and/or resistances to adjacent units with this ability.
But in difference to the other proposals my modell would have meant, to give this bonus only then, when the enemy unit is adjacent to two of these units (and these two to each other), and fighting against one of them.
This way, the flank-units would not profite of this ability, and the second rank units would not provide any support for the first rank (which would only make sense with very long pikes, but this is... strange).
This way the bonus would be fix (not depending on unit numbers).
Some flaws of this rule are, that it would work even when two units are completely surrounded (but would work only for enemys on the two hexes that lie adjacent to both units), or when they have enemys in their back (which would not fit for a phalanx).
I also got through the counter-arguments, and I don't think it has much chances. Though, to be honest I think steadfast (is it called this in the english version?) is pretty annoying, even if I do use guardsmen often. But they die as fast as other units and are being hit easily. You cannot attack with them, as dealing to little damage conpared to this they take, and their resistances are less than those of dwarfish fighters. So to use them as bulwark works seldom.
And first-strike only makes a difference, when one of the two units is close to dying.
But I'm to little active in Wesnoth to make such requests. Just a suggestion...
I found two threads (including this) talking about an ability which just came to my mind, and I would call "Phalanx".
As it would mean, giving a bonus in defense and/or resistances to adjacent units with this ability.
But in difference to the other proposals my modell would have meant, to give this bonus only then, when the enemy unit is adjacent to two of these units (and these two to each other), and fighting against one of them.
This way, the flank-units would not profite of this ability, and the second rank units would not provide any support for the first rank (which would only make sense with very long pikes, but this is... strange).
This way the bonus would be fix (not depending on unit numbers).
Some flaws of this rule are, that it would work even when two units are completely surrounded (but would work only for enemys on the two hexes that lie adjacent to both units), or when they have enemys in their back (which would not fit for a phalanx).
I also got through the counter-arguments, and I don't think it has much chances. Though, to be honest I think steadfast (is it called this in the english version?) is pretty annoying, even if I do use guardsmen often. But they die as fast as other units and are being hit easily. You cannot attack with them, as dealing to little damage conpared to this they take, and their resistances are less than those of dwarfish fighters. So to use them as bulwark works seldom.
And first-strike only makes a difference, when one of the two units is close to dying.
But I'm to little active in Wesnoth to make such requests. Just a suggestion...
CaptainChaos wrote:Once again one idiot comes with the same idea[...]
Well, I've tried this kind of strategic formation lots of times, and believe me, it isn't good unless you have a powerful army of hundreds. The only scenario where it has worked (for me) is HttT, The Battle for Wesnoth.
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.
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Elvish_Star
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Viliam
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IMHO the main disadvantage is that if you have a lot of units of the same type together, they have the same strengths but also the same weaknesses... and you have less choice. If you recruit 3 phalanx units and send them to the same part of map, enemy can bring some good anti-phalanx unit there, and you have a big problem. And if you support them with some anti-anti-phalanx unit, then most of your budget is spent on one part of map, and enemy can easily take all the remaining villages.Zhukov wrote:The fact is that bunching your units together (i.e. putting them in a phalanx) already grants advantages and disadvantages
Technically this ability should be relatively easy to code. It is similar to leadership, with the difference that it works only on a specified unit types (the phalanx and its upgrades).