Wisdom and Scholars

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Darth Fool
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Wisdom and Scholars

Post by Darth Fool »

To continue the thought from the now abandoned 0.8 ideas thread....

I don't see any reason why it would not be possible to impliment both a wise trait and a wise ability, since most of the mechanism could be shared. I do think that if that was done, it probably would be a good idea to give them different names.

I think that a maximum ratio of 1/6 exp learned vicariously would be a good number as that would prevent a wise unit that was not at any risk (ie surrounded by friends) would not level up faster on average than his guard. I think it would be good, however, to add up all the experience per turn first, then divide. I don't have any feel wether rounding or truncation would be better.

As for a scholar unit, I don't particularly like the idea, but since I'm in academia I couldn't resist the chance to take a dig at it. Here's my idea for a scholar unit and its higher level versions. Sorry, no artwork...

Scholar:
level: 1
cost: 20?
exp: 100?
Advance to: Great Teacher
HP: 20
move 4
Movetype: elusive foot
Alignment: chaotic
Ability: Wisdom (learns vicariously)
Attacks: Type: range: damage special
Hand-Wave impact short 0-3 slow

Great Teacher:
level: 2
cost: 40?
exp: 200?
Advance to: Oracle
HP: 30
move 5
Movetype: elusive foot
Alignment: chaotic
Ability: Wisdom (learns vicariously)
Attacks: Type: range: damage special
Hand-Wave impact short 0-4 slows
Lecture impact long 0-2 sleep

Oracle:
level: 3
cost: 100?
exp: 500?
Advance to: null
HP: 40
move 6
Movetype: elusive foot
Alignment: chaotic
Ability: Inspiration (Units gain wisdom ability when adjacent to Oracle)
Attacks: Type: range: damage special
Hand-Wave impact short 0-4 slows
Lecture impact long 0-3 sleep

:wink:

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turin
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Post by turin »

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
why chaotic? or are teachers evil or something?

fractions of xp would not really work well, i think it would be too hard to calculate. make it so it needs like 100 xp to advance, which is about 3 times what a normal unit needs, and gets 1 xp from each vicarious learn event.
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Circon
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Post by Circon »

Lecture???
and what would be the point? 20 gold for a slowing unit with no damage? I'd rather have the 18 gold Shaman, which has more movement, too.

Darth Fool
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Post by Darth Fool »

turin wrote::lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
why chaotic? or are teachers evil or something?
Well, most academics get their best work done late at night...I won't comment on wether they are evil or not,... :twisted:
turin wrote: fractions of xp would not really work well, i think it would be too hard to calculate. make it so it needs like 100 xp to advance, which is about 3 times what a normal unit needs, and gets 1 xp from each vicarious learn event.


That could work

Darth Fool
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Post by Darth Fool »

Circon wrote:Lecture???
and what would be the point? 20 gold for a slowing unit with no damage? I'd rather have the 18 gold Shaman, which has more movement, too.
Well, I did say that I'm not particularly in favor of wisdom as a unit ability ... I'm not going to try to argue with you about wether scholars are useless or not :lol:

Dobob
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Post by Dobob »

A unit which main advantage is to grow as another unit with the same main advantage is useless. I would rather see a low level unit with Wisdow growing to a new unit with new abilities usefull enough by itself (so the unit wouldn't be Wisdow-oriented).

Here's could be an example :

You recruit a level 0 unit named scholar. He doesn't have any sensible attacks (except maybe a 2-2 melee one), but he need only about 10~15 xp to advance. Then he has a choice of very good level 1 units to advance to (these should generally be better than others recruitable level 1 units). So, in this exemple, it could be : botanist (specialist in special effects attacks, like poison, slow and stone); cleric (healer with an holy melee attack); tactician (have a leadership-like ability that work for any units); ... and so on

That would be interest of having a scholar unit : to get access to new and more usefull units.


On a side note, my personnal opinion on how xp should be gained is to give xp everytime a unit close to the scholar kill another unit (ennemy or ally). The xp gain would be equal to the level of the killed unit (so the scholar would gain as much xp as if he had attack the unit).

Insinuator
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Post by Insinuator »

Though indispensable in actuality, the scholarly unit would seem useless in BFW. As Circon pointed out, the Elvish Shaman costs less and can move farther. It also does damage, takes less xp to advance (something which the scholar could be worth), and has more hp at levels two and three (unvalidated). The "wisdom" trait might be implemented in another, more powerful unit, perhaps.

Christophe33
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Post by Christophe33 »

Here is a good special power for scolars: "grant request". Each time a scolar make a successfull grant request against an enemy, he drains gold. For example a lvl1 scolar would have a grant request attack of 1-3, meaning he can drain 1 gold up to three times. A lvl3 scolar could drain 5-5 (up to 25 gold in a turn). Note that you don't actually get the gold from the enemy...the scolar just waste it :). The grant request would not work on lvl0 units (too poor :)) nor against unit of level higher than the scolar.
Thus a scolar could pump up gold out of the enemies and ruined them. Maybe the drawback would be that scolar cost twice muchper level to keep than normal unit except when they manage to drain money from someone else :).
I work in academic too...It sounds like a good description of scolars :)
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Darth Fool
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Post by Darth Fool »

Christophe33 wrote:Here is a good special power for scolars: "grant request". Each time a scolar make a successfull grant request against an enemy, he drains gold. For example a lvl1 scolar would have a grant request attack of 1-3, meaning he can drain 1 gold up to three times. A lvl3 scolar could drain 5-5 (up to 25 gold in a turn). Note that you don't actually get the gold from the enemy...the scolar just waste it :). The grant request would not work on lvl0 units (too poor :)) nor against unit of level higher than the scolar.
Thus a scolar could pump up gold out of the enemies and ruined them. Maybe the drawback would be that scolar cost twice muchper level to keep than normal unit except when they manage to drain money from someone else :).
I work in academic too...It sounds like a good description of scolars :)
Ha , Ha, :lol: I love it...

Insinuator
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Post by Insinuator »

Well, that's certainly original. It seems to be a good idea though, to get a unit which can damage the enemy in another manner than skirmishing.

Christophe33
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Post by Christophe33 »

Of course, the power to get money from enemies ccouldd be given to a new type of unit called "taxman" ...but then nobody would want to recruit it...or you will want to be able to kill it yourself :)
Never tell a dwarf that he shortchanged you!

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