Mac Campaign Editor???

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Would you use a Mac Campaign Editor?

Yes
12
36%
No
6
18%
Maybe
4
12%
Mac, what's a Mac???
11
33%
 
Total votes: 33

Sithrandel
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Mac Campaign Editor???

Post by Sithrandel »

OK, call me dumb, but I am thinking of producing a Mac Campaign Editor. It could be amusing and would be a proper attempt to support the project. It has previously been agreed that tools do not need to be cross-platform and as Cocoa is laughably easy to get an app up and running it will allow me to concentrate on the core rather than GUI / event loop, etc.

There are two key questions...

1) Would anyone use / want it?

2) Power is in direct editing of the config files, ease of use if via a GUI editor. Some tradeoffs will have to be made. What complex features of WML would you sacrifice for such an editor (e.g. restriction on multiple nesting of IFs, etc)? What must be included?

Thanks for any responses / suggestions.
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Gafgarion
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Post by Gafgarion »

I'd be happy as long as it had map generation and editing. I've found that I end up using VPC and the Windows Map Editor to make maps rather than deal with the wretched ASCII (I'm working on a campaign that I haven't announced yet).
-Gafgarion
Elvish Pillager wrote:Normal Trolls use clubs, not ostriches.
"Language is the source of misunderstandings." -Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Christophe33
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Post by Christophe33 »

I would happily use the Mac editor as soon as it will be available.
The number 1 feature I would like is a map editor/generator.

A scenario editor/debugger would be nice too, specially if it can check that all the necessary files are present (unit files, pictures...).

Also it would be great if the scenario editor includes a library of special effect/action (like ambushes and special objects) to place in the scenario. Right now I go through the scenarios of the campaign to shop for what I want and try to adapt it to my need.
Other feature: object creator/editor. For example I would like to include in my campaign a "sword of light" that would provide illumination to the wielder but I have no idea how to make it.
A unit editor?
Making new unit files with a text editor is fairly easy so it is not a priority but if the new unit can be directly included in the scenario it would be nice..
The scenario editor could contain a list with all the unit type name to allow an easy setting for "recruit".
But the main thing I want of a scenario editor...is to use it now :).
I mean I would prefer something usable soon rather than something nice and cute in a year.
By the way, the Installing User Campaigns feature is great.
Never tell a dwarf that he shortchanged you!
Sithrandel
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Post by Sithrandel »

Well it is going to be done in lunch breaks, but as it is Cocoa shouldn't take to long. Current design plans are:
  • * Edit Campaigns / Scenarios / Maps / Units / Events
    * It won't import at least to start. Propriatory save format but export to a Wesnoth campaign folder. Reasoning... using the "free" saving features of Cocoa for speed. Planning import in Phase 2 if it ever gets that far.
    * Scenarios will contain map / unit info embedded in one file.
    * Will include a library of some objects if possible :D
At the moment I am fiddling with Interface Builder so coding is a little while of. I am considering a direct editing of tags in addition to a nice beginner-friendly approach. If I go that route import should be easier as imports would be to user-defined tags. Import of standalone map files should be comparatively easy to implement.
Accipitradea

Mac Editor

Post by Accipitradea »

The map editor is the most needed thing, I'm not sure how much the other editing tools will help in the long run, seeing as it all comes down to WML anyway.
Sithrandel
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Re: Mac Editor

Post by Sithrandel »

Accipitradea wrote:The map editor is the most needed thing, I'm not sure how much the other editing tools will help in the long run, seeing as it all comes down to WML anyway.
So you'd be ok with the standard no-frills map editor that Dave has already written? [EDIT: download seems flakey, will look into it]

p.s. If you download it, put it in the same folder as the game. Maps created in the game's map folder.
Last edited by Sithrandel on March 24th, 2004, 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dave
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Post by Dave »

I must confess, I know very little about this Cocoa thing, but it does sound very powerful :)

David
“At Gambling, the deadly sin is to mistake bad play for bad luck.” -- Ian Fleming
Sithrandel
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Post by Sithrandel »

It is, basically you design the GUI first using a special prog, linking via drag-and-drop. The default behaviour exists for most objects so you don't have to code them only override occassionally. So for example, if you have a menu option which opens a window... you draw a line from the menu to the window and that behaviour will exist without a line of code :D

Similarly all tabbing and control handling is done for you and loading and saving to a large extent too. There are also lots of highlevel classes for data handling. So all in all it is great :D

You can write a fully functional web-browser in one line of code.

There is an open source version, OpenStep, but it is a smaller subset of the Apple tools.

So for a campaign editor the real stuff is the WML parsing and handling and the map part ;-)
Christophe33
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Re: Mac Editor

Post by Christophe33 »

Sithrandel wrote: So you'd be ok with the standard no-frills map editor that Dave has already written?

p.s. If you download it, put it in the same folder as the game. Maps created in the game's map folder.
I have tried to download the map editor from your link but instead it appears in a window on my web browser. I tried to save that as a file but couldn't use it. I suppose that there is something wrong in the setting for downloading the file.
So I don't know how usable is Dave editor. if you can make a nice map editor for mac it would be great. Beside the basic features and Mac functionality, it would be good be able to add special terrains (or terrain not from the main campaign) and place items directly on the map.
Never tell a dwarf that he shortchanged you!
Sithrandel
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Post by Sithrandel »

Hmmm... worked when I tried it with Safari earlier. Doesn't now :-(

I'll look into it and post once the quirk is sorted.

Dave's editor allows you to place terrain and edit a saved map. Basic, but definitely functional.
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Gafgarion
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Post by Gafgarion »

the current editor requires a large amount of ASCIIing to correct mistakes on the map. Also it would be nice to be able to set the map size and such when creating the map.
-Gafgarion
Elvish Pillager wrote:Normal Trolls use clubs, not ostriches.
"Language is the source of misunderstandings." -Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Accipitradea

Debugging

Post by Accipitradea »

Do you want bug reports/feature requests yet or are you still working on it? Things like cmd+q to quit and being able to save and such would be nice but I don't want to harass you if you've still got stuff in the works.
Sithrandel
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Post by Sithrandel »

OK... for the standard Wesnoth editor (as in Dave's map editor), no real fixes for that as I think the dev team are aware of limitations. Use esc = save and quit to save from that.

For my campaign editor, suggestions are definitely welcomed.

At the moment, however, I am still setting up the UI / data structures.

There is only code so far is WML parsing code to get some of the UI starting to look right.

Useful comments in the immediate future would be on the layout... what is useful and what isn't. For example, on the Units tab of the Scenario Info tab is that information useful, is there any crucial info which is missing? Do also remember that you can rearrange the columns yourself if you don't like the order :D

Similarly, for the Terrain list... what extra terrain info would be useful? I have no idea what Red=150 means so left it out. Height I considered putting in.

Also are there any key structures which are missing?

Are there any other tags which should be dealt with separately and specially? e.g. [terrain] and [unit] will be placeable directly on the map.

Then once that is sorted we can discuss more detailed interaction of the editor.

I reckon my hardest task will be the custem view for the map. It has been a while since I wrote a hex rendering routine (on the Atari ST I think) ;-)

Current priority:

1. Get map portion sorted.

2. Get basic campaign editing working.

3. Polish UI.

4. Improve complexity of editing.
Christophe33
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Post by Christophe33 »

I can't download correctly your editor...same problem that before, it open the file in a window of the web browser (this is on another computer). If I save the file from the web browser I can't open the resulting disk image.
Can you just send it to me...it is only 140k apparently so it should not be a problem.
Never tell a dwarf that he shortchanged you!
Christophe33
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Joined: January 21st, 2004, 1:10 am
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Post by Christophe33 »

Another somewhat unrelated problem. I tried adding my campaign in development to BfW 0.7 and the automatic file download seemed to work but then BfW doesn't work at all. It starts theen quit immediatly, even before displaying the first window. I tried to find what is the faulty file(s) but it is not that easy since there is no uninstall.
To test I just tried to install the loyalist campaign on a fresh version of BfW. Everything worked find, the game start but when I try the loyalist campaign Gwedrry is invisible...It seems that the picture file got corrupted since it is placed right but can't be opened anymore with image viewers.
Never tell a dwarf that he shortchanged you!
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