[mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Brainstorm ideas of possible additions to the game. Read this before posting!

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Forum rules
Before posting a new idea, you must read the following:
Post Reply
User avatar
Kasdel
Posts: 39
Joined: January 7th, 2018, 8:22 pm

Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Kasdel » January 12th, 2018, 7:47 pm

This is the culmination of all of my lore ideas for the Dunefolk's origin, written in a literary way.
Read below. I might write another part detailing what they did while in Wesnoth, if you guys like this one. (I hope you do) :)
If there's any lore mistake or inconsistency, please point out. I don't know much about Wesnoth lore, to be frank.
Blood among the sand:

User avatar
Pentarctagon
Forum Administrator
Posts: 3547
Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 10:50 pm
Location: Earth (occasionally)

Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Pentarctagon » January 12th, 2018, 8:48 pm

Since this thread is already huge and rather cluttered, I've created another thread over in the Writers forum for discussing the Dunefolk's lore and race description. Please direct all discussion regarding those topics over to that thread - if you've already posted something here, feel free to cross-post it over there as well.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code

User avatar
Celtic_Minstrel
Developer
Posts: 1225
Joined: August 3rd, 2012, 11:26 pm
Contact:

Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » January 13th, 2018, 1:56 am

Eagle_11 wrote:
Celtic_Minstrel wrote:For the thousandth time, the saurians are not desert creatures...
Saurian have high defense on sand terrain. :p
That doesn't make them desert natives.
Author of The Black Cross of Aleron campaign and Default++ era.
Maintainer of Steelhive.

User avatar
SigurdFireDragon
Developer
Posts: 404
Joined: January 12th, 2011, 2:18 am
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by SigurdFireDragon » January 13th, 2018, 4:12 am

Kasdel wrote:
SigurdFireDragon wrote: People not of that particular religion are likely finding it inappropriate that a religion gets what amounts to a billboard in this game, when no other religions have such a thing.
I'm definitely not religious and definitely not bothered with this. Basing ourselves on a religion is not the same as promoting it. I think the people who would be more bothered by religion in Wesnoth would be religious people, but that's a different matter.
Obviously not everyone. Some are, just look through the old threads for evidence of that.
loophoc wrote:i haven't seen any valuable reason for changing the initial name nor the units ones.
As far as the unit name ones, did you miss or discount the ease of use arguments? (ie Players of this game should be able to easily pick up what on units level into through the normal course of playing the game.)
loophoc wrote:...I understand most of the reasons of these concerns, but since there are so many things in this game (i won't enumerate : all of this has been listed for years) that could be considered as religious or politic bias..
Even if that is true, it is a matter of degree. If it's a minor degree and blended with other things that is one thing. If it's a major degree and blended with nothing else, it is another. (and yes, there's a version of this exchange in older threads.)


Everything mentioned in this thread has been rehashed before.
To anyone who wants there to be no changes: Do you really think that will result in a smooth acceptance of this faction into the default era? The discussion history for this faction points to 'No'.
With how development for this faction has gone, it's hard for me to reasonably imagine how it could have gone worse.

User avatar
Xalzar
Posts: 198
Joined: April 4th, 2009, 10:03 pm
Location: New Saurgrath

Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Xalzar » January 13th, 2018, 9:55 am

Off-topic: Will we talk about gameplay too?
Should we tackle the matter in the order: Faction Background -> Definitive Unit Roster -> Gameplay? Or do you suggest another order?
I've something to say about that but I've never found an opportune time or space to bring up my observations. :hmm:

User avatar
Pentarctagon
Forum Administrator
Posts: 3547
Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 10:50 pm
Location: Earth (occasionally)

Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Pentarctagon » January 13th, 2018, 10:39 am

Xalzar wrote:Off-topic: Will we talk about gameplay too?
Should we tackle the matter in the order: Faction Background -> Definitive Unit Roster -> Gameplay? Or do you suggest another order?
I've something to say about that but I've never found an opportune time or space to bring up my observations. :hmm:
I'd like to get the renaming and background done first, since those don't really have any side effects. Balancing and general gameplay changes need to take into account all the other factions as well, and if the unit lineup is being changed, then additional sprites that are up to mainline standards would need to be found and accepted too.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code

User avatar
Xalzar
Posts: 198
Joined: April 4th, 2009, 10:03 pm
Location: New Saurgrath

Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Xalzar » January 13th, 2018, 11:39 am

Pentarctagon wrote:
Xalzar wrote:Off-topic: Will we talk about gameplay too?
Should we tackle the matter in the order: Faction Background -> Definitive Unit Roster -> Gameplay? Or do you suggest another order?
I've something to say about that but I've never found an opportune time or space to bring up my observations. :hmm:
I'd like to get the renaming and background done first, since those don't really have any side effects. Balancing and general gameplay changes need to take into account all the other factions as well, and if the unit lineup is being changed, then additional sprites that are up to mainline standards would need to be found and accepted too.
Yeah, since we're talking about that... Is there someone we know is willing to embark on the task of making the unit animations after the unit lineup solidifies?
I've the looming fear this rework could be for naught if the faction is never going to be up to mainline standards...
It's no secret that many ask themselves why was the Khalifate chosen to be the seventh faction and not more popular and complete factions, and I think at the end it's better not to leave so much ground to this criticism. :hmm:

User avatar
Bitron
Moderator
Posts: 439
Joined: October 19th, 2015, 9:23 am
Location: Germany

Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Bitron » January 13th, 2018, 11:48 am

Calzar wrote:I've the looming fear this rework could be for naught if the faction is never going to be up to mainline standards...
It's no secret that many ask themselves why was the Khalifate chosen to be the seventh faction and not more popular and complete factions, and I think at the end it's better not to leave so much ground to this criticism
I guess one of the reasons why the Khalifate was chosen is that they were actually designed right from the beginning to fit into mainline. Many other factions which are more complete are balanced against the other factions within their era, not mainline. That's at least what I was told when I asked around about that.

User avatar
Pentarctagon
Forum Administrator
Posts: 3547
Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 10:50 pm
Location: Earth (occasionally)

Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Pentarctagon » January 13th, 2018, 11:55 am

Xalzar wrote:Yeah, since we're talking about that... Is there someone we know is willing to embark on the task of making the unit animations after the unit lineup solidifies?
I've the looming fear this rework could be for naught if the faction is never going to be up to mainline standards...
It's no secret that many ask themselves why was the Khalifate chosen to be the seventh faction and not more popular and complete factions, and I think at the end it's better not to leave so much ground to this criticism. :hmm:
Unfortunately, I can't really answer that myself. Either someone would need to volunteer to do it, which is quite a lot of work, or the Board would need to both have and be willing to spend the money to commission someone to do it. There is nobody lined up to do it right now, though.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code

name
Posts: 336
Joined: January 6th, 2008, 3:32 am

Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by name » January 13th, 2018, 6:25 pm

Pentarctagon wrote:
Xalzar wrote:Yeah, since we're talking about that... Is there someone we know is willing to embark on the task of making the unit animations after the unit lineup solidifies?
I've the looming fear this rework could be for naught if the faction is never going to be up to mainline standards...
It's no secret that many ask themselves why was the Khalifate chosen to be the seventh faction and not more popular and complete factions, and I think at the end it's better not to leave so much ground to this criticism. :hmm:
Unfortunately, I can't really answer that myself. Either someone would need to volunteer to do it, which is quite a lot of work, or the Board would need to both have and be willing to spend the money to commission someone to do it. There is nobody lined up to do it right now, though.
From this perspective of economic use of sprite animation resources, the ideal seventh faction would be made from re-balancing the race of monsters and wild animals into a multiplayer faction. The monster and animal sprites already get a lot of development resources because of their widespread usage in both mainline campaigns and UMC content.

The downside is you would need to create lower level versions for high level monsters (fledgling dragon, devilfish, serpent, hatchling spider, etc.) and less often higher level versions for low level monsters (kraken, epic scorpion). Though on the positive side, these additions would give campaign and scenario writers more options for general opponents in their single player content as well.

So you are spending animation resources on content that is widely used and useful, rather than dunefolk that only make sense in a desert setting and are so problematic in general. And I mean, none of the existing six factions is anywhere close to having a complete set of both directional and movement animations after all these years. Maybe only 5% of this is done?

User avatar
Celtic_Minstrel
Developer
Posts: 1225
Joined: August 3rd, 2012, 11:26 pm
Contact:

Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » January 13th, 2018, 7:19 pm

I strongly disagree that a monster faction (of the existing monsters) would be ideal in any sense. Even you contradicted that statement when you brought up the need for full unit lines among the monsters.
Author of The Black Cross of Aleron campaign and Default++ era.
Maintainer of Steelhive.

User avatar
Pentarctagon
Forum Administrator
Posts: 3547
Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 10:50 pm
Location: Earth (occasionally)

Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Pentarctagon » January 13th, 2018, 7:28 pm

And in any case, it's completely off topic - this thread, while it has grown to encompass many things, is not about removing the Dunefolk and-or adding another faction in their place.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code

name
Posts: 336
Joined: January 6th, 2008, 3:32 am

Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by name » January 13th, 2018, 8:42 pm

Yeah that was too far off topic, sorry.

User avatar
SigurdFireDragon
Developer
Posts: 404
Joined: January 12th, 2011, 2:18 am
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by SigurdFireDragon » January 16th, 2018, 12:41 am

While we're at it, I think it would be worthwhile to update the Dunefolk faction description (inside the [multiplayer_side] tag) and the Era description for the + Dunefolk Eras.

Would that discussion be best here, in the race description thread, or elsewhere?

User avatar
Celtic_Minstrel
Developer
Posts: 1225
Joined: August 3rd, 2012, 11:26 pm
Contact:

Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » January 16th, 2018, 2:21 am

Speaking of which, it's entirely possible for the faction and the race to not have the same name. This might be a bit weird if the faction consists exclusively of dunefolk, mind you...
Author of The Black Cross of Aleron campaign and Default++ era.
Maintainer of Steelhive.

Post Reply