[mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit names

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What should the Shuja -> Khalid be named?

Poll ended at February 2nd, 2018, 2:11 am

Dune Blademaster -> Dune Conqueror
4
24%
Dune Blademaster -> Dune Warmaster
6
35%
Dune Blademaster -> Dune Warlord
3
18%
Dune Champion -> Dune Warmaster
1
6%
Dune Champion -> Dune Conqueror
3
18%
 
Total votes: 17

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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Pentarctagon » January 13th, 2018, 6:42 pm

Alright, I've updated the opening post with pretty much *everything* that's been suggested so far. There are some duplicates, both within and between lines, so that's something to keep in mind when the voting starts. There will be no Lancer -> Lancer advancement options and the like, for fairly obvious reasons.

To start with though, will be the prefix poll. I don't believe there were any additional prefix suggestions beyond what was stated in the opening post, so those six will be the ones used. So far it also sounds like "Dune" is the preferred prefix, though the race name poll turned out to be surprisingly close as well. If a second poll is needed between the top two, then that will be done this time. The poll will run for 3 days, vote changing is allowed, and it will have 1 vote per person.
Celtic_Minstrel wrote:I recall there was a unit in Age of Empires II that was specifically designed to go against buildings. They were more of a suicide bomber than the naffat, mind you, but I wonder if remember what they were called would help me think of a name for units in this line...
I just noticed this from the previous page - I believe that's the petard you're remembering.
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » January 13th, 2018, 7:22 pm

Ah yes, that's indeed the one I was thinking of. From wiktionary, it appears that "petard" refers to a small explosive. Unfortunately, this doesn't give me any further ideas for the naffat line though...
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Pentarctagon » January 17th, 2018, 8:21 am

A follow up poll has been added by request. After that completes, the voting on unit names will start.
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Vyncyn » January 17th, 2018, 8:33 am

Can't we have both prefixes? I think some unit names sound better with "dune" and some with "dunefolk".
Maybe we could even use them as distinction between the liminal and lawful unit.
" Dune" for liminal units, since they seem to be the ones fighting in the dessert.
"Dunefolk" for lawful units, because they live more in cities ( so they aren't dune warriors, but still belong to the dunefolk)

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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Pentarctagon » January 17th, 2018, 1:59 pm

Vyncyn wrote:Can't we have both prefixes? I think some unit names sound better with "dune" and some with "dunefolk".
Maybe we could even use them as distinction between the liminal and lawful unit.
" Dune" for liminal units, since they seem to be the ones fighting in the dessert.
"Dunefolk" for lawful units, because they live more in cities ( so they aren't dune warriors, but still belong to the dunefolk)
I don't believe the other factions have multiple prefixes within the same race, so I would prefer to continue to follow that convention.
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by WhiteWolf » January 17th, 2018, 2:44 pm

Just an idea - is the prefix name that important in the case of a humantype race? Loyalists don't have prefixes, outlaws either, why should the southern People/dunefolk have a prefix, apart from avoiding name-collisions (which actually is a strong point, but apart from that)? Wouldn't it be more consistant to have no prefix for mainline humans?
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Vyncyn » January 17th, 2018, 7:46 pm

Pentarctagon wrote:I don't believe the other factions have multiple prefixes within the same race, so I would prefer to continue to follow that convention.
Arguably the orcs do, since goblins and orcs are the same species, but I see your point.
WhiteWolf wrote:Just an idea - is the prefix name that important in the case of a humantype race? Loyalists don't have prefixes, outlaws either, why should the southern People/dunefolk have a prefix, apart from avoiding name-collisions (which actually is a strong point, but apart from that)? Wouldn't it be more consistant to have no prefix for mainline humans?
Dunefolk are already listed as different race (even though they are human), so they are different loyalists/outlaws. A prefix would help to identify them easier.

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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by SigurdFireDragon » January 18th, 2018, 1:15 am

Another attempt to help come up with a good consensus before unit voting starts
Arif Line
ImageImageImageImage
Arif Names: Infantry
Ghazi Names: Veteran
Shuja Names: Champion
Khalid Names: Eternal, Sultan, Khan, Padishah - Not sure about using Sultan, since it might end up in race description or other lore
ImageImageImage
Arif Names: see previous
Mudafi Names: Spearguard, Spearman
Rasikh Names: Spearmaster, Spearguard
Hakim Line
ImageImage
Hakim Names: Herbalist, Alchemist, Healer
Tabib Names: Alchemist, Thaumaturgist, Physician, Healer
Jundi Line
ImageImageImage
Jundi Names: Fighter, Fighter
Muharib Names: Warrior, Hero, Veteran
Batal Names: Ranger, Tarkhan, Champion
ImageImageImage
Jundi Names: see previous
Monawish: Swordsman, Sword Dancer
Mighwar: Blademaster
Khaiyal Line
ImageImageImage
Khaiyal Names: Piercer, Lancer
Faris Names: Lancer, Sunderer
Mufariq Names: Cataphract, Sunderer
ImageImageImage
Khaiyal Names: see previous
Qanas Names: Raider, Pillager
Hadaf Names: Marauder, Raider
Naffat Line
ImageImageImage
Naffat Names: Firethrower, Combuster, Burner
Qatif-al-nar Names: Firebrand, Combuster, Firespitter
Tineen Names: Scorcher, Firestorm, Inferno
Rami Line
ImageImageImage
see previous
ImageImageImage
Rami Names: Rider
Saree: Swiftrider
Jawal: Windrider

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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » January 18th, 2018, 2:13 am

Those seem mostly good to me, Sigurd, apart from the khalid (I really dislike "eternal" as a unit name). I'm still not entirely happy with the naffat suggestions, but they don't seem too bad. There is one other thing I'm a bit concerned about - that "ranger" seems very unlike either of the other ranger units.
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by skeptical_troll » January 18th, 2018, 10:21 am

'eternal', sounds a bit strange to me as well. How about 'hero'? or you can use 'conscript' for the Arif and shift the others, i.e. conscript -> infantry -> veteran -> champion. The other one I would change is 'marauder', as it suggests that the unit is more an outlaw rather than part of the regular army. I can't think of a great alternative though :hmm:

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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Airatgaljamov » January 19th, 2018, 5:43 pm

Hey, maybe I can also add something to the discussion.
I don't understand why we are removing every non-meaningful-in-English names.
Maybe we could keep Khalid. In description it states that Khalids are named after some legendary hero. It is normal transition of proper noun into common.
As Celtic_Minstrel suggested, Naffat is ok-ish, maybe transformed into Naphat, as it connects to actual flammable liquid. I'd also like to add the name Arsonist to the pool of Naffat-line unit names.
Possible names for the unit from Jundi-line can be Mercenary, Saboteur, Diversionist.

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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Eagle_11 » January 19th, 2018, 6:26 pm

Naptha Thrower-Naptha Launcher-Naptha Master can probably work for flamethrower unit line. Alternately Naptha Grenadier-Naptha Launcher-Naptha Thrower since looks like lvl2 having a grenade-launcher and lvl3 a flamethrower.
I too can vouch for keeping Khalid. Please dont use Khan or Padishah. Use Legend if it absolutely needs to change.
I had use Hillsman-Combatant-Brute for Jundi line. On a second thought an word that emphasizes the skirmisher nature would function better for level 3. Diversionist can be fitting in that regard.
Add possible name for level 2 Hakim: Apothecary.
at Mudafi Guardsman, Guard, at Rasikh Defender, Protector can function. Rider - Armored Rider- Cataphract for Khaiyal.
Level 1 Rami should be Horse Archer, cause thats what it is.

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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Pentarctagon » January 19th, 2018, 6:53 pm

Airatgaljamov wrote:Hey, maybe I can also add something to the discussion.
I don't understand why we are removing every non-meaningful-in-English names.
Maybe we could keep Khalid. In description it states that Khalids are named after some legendary hero. It is normal transition of proper noun into common.
As Celtic_Minstrel suggested, Naffat is ok-ish, maybe transformed into Naphat, as it connects to actual flammable liquid. I'd also like to add the name Arsonist to the pool of Naffat-line unit names.
Possible names for the unit from Jundi-line can be Mercenary, Saboteur, Diversionist.
The goal is to make the unit names better fit into how other units in Wesnoth are named. Arif, for example, isn't very descriptive of the unit's role, while Soldier or Warrior do a much better job. The current unit names are also not translated for different languages, while other factions such as the Rebels do have their unit names translated into different languages.
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Airatgaljamov » January 19th, 2018, 7:10 pm

The reason to rename the units is understandable and I completely agree. Never liked current state of non-descriptive names. I'm only touching the particular case for Khalid. By itself it is not descriptive, but it can work as a name for the Lvl4 unit in Arif line. Lvl4s are indeed quite special.
And in Default we already have Triton. That name is neither descriptive (arguably) nor translatable. But it is still good.
So to give a unusial name to a special unit sounds good to me.

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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Vyncyn » January 19th, 2018, 7:39 pm

Airatgaljamov wrote:The reason to rename the units is understandable and I completely agree. Never liked current state of non-descriptive names. I'm only touching the particular case for Khalid. By itself it is not descriptive, but it can work as a name for the Lvl4 unit in Arif line. Lvl4s are indeed quite special.
And in Default we already have Triton. That name is neither descriptive (arguably) nor translatable. But it is still good.
So to give a unusial name to a special unit sounds good to me.
I agree. Since the unit's role doesn't change at lvl4 a descriptive name isn't needed.
Eagle_11 wrote:Level 1 Rami should be Horse Archer, cause thats what it is.
Horse Archer for lvl1 Rami is a good idea. "Dune Horse Archer" sounds strange though.
Eagle_11 wrote:Naptha Thrower-Naptha Launcher-Naptha Master can probably work for flamethrower unit line. Alternately Naptha Grenadier-Naptha Launcher-Naptha Thrower since looks like lvl2 having a grenade-launcher and lvl3 a flamethrower.
"Naptha-" on all three levels is a bit boring. I liked the Arsonist suggestion.
Maybe Firespitter-> Naptha thrower-> Arsonist. But I'm not reaaly happy with that either :?

---a bit offtopic, but may an actual firebreather would work for lvl1? He'd just need a new image set

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