Wesnoth archers need an upgrade

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Crow_T
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Wesnoth archers need an upgrade

Post by Crow_T » January 24th, 2015, 9:32 pm

This guy should be an Easter egg in HttT :P https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=8 ... EG-ly9tQGk

There is also some interesting archer history tucked among the crazy archery

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Tom_Of_Wesnoth
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Re: Wesnoth archers need an upgrade

Post by Tom_Of_Wesnoth » January 24th, 2015, 10:17 pm

That's awesome! Probably couldn't be reflected very well in pixel art though :cry:
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johndh
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Re: Wesnoth archers need an upgrade

Post by johndh » January 24th, 2015, 10:21 pm

Just give an archer Marksman and Berserk! :twisted:
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.

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Tom_Of_Wesnoth
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Re: Wesnoth archers need an upgrade

Post by Tom_Of_Wesnoth » January 24th, 2015, 10:27 pm

That would be hilariously fun! You could have the unit's description say s/he researched the old ways under Master Lars Andersen, to tie it to the video.
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Chewan
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Re: Wesnoth archers need an upgrade

Post by Chewan » January 24th, 2015, 10:47 pm

Stunning!
Practicing archery for several years, I now finally know where this feeling of unease comes from.
Yeah, to be historically correct Wesnoth's archers have to retrain their skills.
Marksman and berserk wouldn't do, it's all about agility and motion. And how to hold the bow...
Thanks for this stimulating link!

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Re: Wesnoth archers need an upgrade

Post by Dugi » January 25th, 2015, 7:43 am

Very interesting video. Catching incoming arrows, shooting arrows to pieces in mid-flight, shooting as fast as a pistol... Definitely changed my view of archers in history. Now when all the seemingly absurd stuns attributed to Elvish Sharpshooters can be done by humans, it's time to wonder what else do these guys do. Shoot spinning arrows to hit enemies behind corners?

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Re: Wesnoth archers need an upgrade

Post by johndh » January 25th, 2015, 2:36 pm

After watching some videos about the advantages of slings (cheap, easy to make, you can carry a backup, ammo is everywhere, works in the rain, harder to dodge, etc.), I had wondered for a long time why bows eventually replaced them in most warfare. Maybe this video shows why.
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.

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Crow_T
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Re: Wesnoth archers need an upgrade

Post by Crow_T » January 25th, 2015, 10:34 pm

I imagine bows replaced slings for their armor-piercing qualities if anything else.

In one of Lars' other videos there is a comparison of him shooting vs Legolas in LotR, it's funny that he is faster than a special effect!

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Re: Wesnoth archers need an upgrade

Post by johndh » January 26th, 2015, 3:15 am

Crow_T wrote:I imagine bows replaced slings for their armor-piercing qualities if anything else.
Even the Spanish conquerors of South America remarked on the power of slung stones against their steel arms and armor. They're even better when using lead bullets. I don't think armor penetration necessarily favors bows at all.
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.

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Dixie
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Re: Wesnoth archers need an upgrade

Post by Dixie » January 26th, 2015, 12:23 pm

In the regards of sings vs bows, I would suppose while slings are worthwhile, the bow could be more versatile because it surely had more effective range? Also, maybe slings are more impaired by leather and padded armors, which were more common in a certain age, but not necessarily that much so by metal plates? While arrows would make short work of a padded gambeson, for instance...?
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Crow_T
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Re: Wesnoth archers need an upgrade

Post by Crow_T » January 26th, 2015, 4:12 pm

Advantages of slings:
Cheap
portable
ammo readily available
long range
less affected by bad weather
blunt damage, much like a mace

Advantages of bows:
accurate
able to pierce armor
can fire faster
powerful (one account of a longbow arrow going through the rider's legs and the horse)

If you were equipping an army it would make plenty of sense to have everyone trained even at a basic level in slinging and carrying a simple sling.

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tekelili
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Re: Wesnoth archers need an upgrade

Post by tekelili » January 26th, 2015, 8:02 pm

I am just guessing, but I would say slings have similar effectiveness as bows in skirmishs, but bows allow superior army configuration in "large" battles.
- A bowman can carry more ammo to battle than a slinger.
- Slingers need more "space" to fire and form less dense formation.
- Arrows can be fired behind infantry so bowmen become protected from enemy reaching them in melee
- Bowmen can fire effectively from defensive positions like castle slits
- A bow can be fired with some accuracy while riding a horse
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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johndh
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Re: Wesnoth archers need an upgrade

Post by johndh » January 27th, 2015, 2:47 am

tekelili wrote:I am just guessing, but I would say slings have similar effectiveness as bows in skirmishs, but bows allow superior army configuration in "large" battles.
- A bowman can carry more ammo to battle than a slinger.
An arrow doesn't have a big ball of lead, but it's long and takes up room, and gets in the way. I'm not sure that you could carry more arrows than bullets.
- Slingers need more "space" to fire and form less dense formation.
Perhaps. That could be a fair point.
- Arrows can be fired behind infantry so bowmen become protected from enemy reaching them in melee
You can sling stones or bullets up in the air just like an arrow, and there are historical accounts of them becoming white hot from the air when used this way. They also have a little advantage there in that the target never sees it coming until there's a searing bullet buried in him. :twisted:
- Bowmen can fire effectively from defensive positions like castle slits
True. I wonder how often that matters (i.e. percentage of battles where these types of fortifications were used).
- A bow can be fired with some accuracy while riding a horse
This is a pretty specialized thing, and a lot of cultures (basically all of Western Europe, for example) that never developed much of a horse archery tradition, still phased out slings in favor of bows.
Dixie wrote:Also, maybe slings are more impaired by leather and padded armors, which were more common in a certain age, but not necessarily that much so by metal plates? While arrows would make short work of a padded gambeson, for instance...?
You might be onto something there.
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.

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tekelili
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Re: Wesnoth archers need an upgrade

Post by tekelili » January 27th, 2015, 4:43 am

johndh wrote:
- Bowmen can fire effectively from defensive positions like castle slits
True. I wonder how often that matters (i.e. percentage of battles where these types of fortifications were used).
Take my words in a wide range. A defensive position can be a hill with lot of trees. This concept is a variance of form dense formations. A bow is so much comfortable to use that can be fired having enemy in sight from a second line of an infantry close formation. Given an archer can fire a lot more projectiles by minute, an army with bowmen facing an army with slingers is like an army with machineguns facing an army with guns, imo. I just dont imagine England army beating French calvary in Crecy using slings :o
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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Dixie
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Re: Wesnoth archers need an upgrade

Post by Dixie » January 27th, 2015, 3:56 pm

Anyway, more related to the original post, I stumbled onto this page earlier today. Maybe Wesnoth archers are not put to shame as much as we originally thought?
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