Questions about D&D.

[Dugi]

Interesting, if I'll ever return to Neverwinter Nights 1, I'll definitely try that.

[Naron]

I have another curiosity. In D&D, undeads do not have a Con score. Why? I understand that Con score directly determines HP (hitpoints). If undeads have Con=0, then they should have HP=0. How is it that they have HP non-zero?

[Dugi]

Hitpoints are calculated from the entity's constitution and the entity's class (let's say that a the undead's class gives 10 hitpoints per level). With 10 consitution and level 14, this would mean 140 hitpoints. 0 consitution subtracts 5 hitpoints per level, that is -70 hitpoints per level. An entity that has level 14, 0 constitution and a class that gives 10 hitpoints per level would havee 70 hitpoints this way. For units like orcs, this isn't enough, but for units like skeletons that already have damage reduction and immunity to criticals, it is enough. I think that they have 0 constitution because their other properties give them enough resilience to be balanced.

[Stabs]

Actually, undead (in the core rules) do not have constitution 0. They simply do not have a constitution score, which comes with some perks: they're immune to anything that requires a Fort save, unless it works on inanimate objects too. It also means they do not get any bonuses (or penalties) to hit points from a constitution score.

At least, that's the way it rolled in 3rd. We're at 5th now, I think- kinda dropped off to play Wesnoth.

[Blarumyrran]

butthe fifth isnt out yet! I ve never palyed D&D but it's sometimes interesting to read the posts where people who have their idea which for the most of rest of us are only ever up in the air more clearly evaluated by the commercial strength or weakness of their works.

[TheCripple]

I have another curiosity. In D&D, undeads do not have a Con score. Why? I understand that Con score directly determines HP (hitpoints). If undeads have Con=0, then they should have HP=0. How is it that they have HP non-zero?

There's a difference between not having a score and having a score of zero. Essentially, your score translates to a modifier, which is what's actually used for most things. [(Score-10)/2 round down] is the actual function. Not having a score means the modifier is treated as zero. As for HP, that's dependant on hit dice, which is roughly analogous to level (although Challenge Rating is also roughly analogous to level, and they don't tend to line up well). For undead in particular, this works out to 6.5 HP per hit die on average, which is actually on the low end.

The rules can be found here, for versions 3.0 and 3.5
http://www.d20srd.org/

Pathfinder, a similar game (it's basically version 3.501, though 3.75 is used) can be found here.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/

There are also a lot more role playing games than just D&D. If you like the style of D&D, I recommend Warrior, Rogue, and Mage. It's a lot simpler, comes to a total of 40ish pages, and is highly stylistically similar.
http://www.stargazergames.eu/games/warrior-rogue-mage/

Another thing to note: is that to some extent character growth in D&D are more exponential than linear (especially for spell casters), a level 20 warrior is usually much more powerful than two level 10 warriors (though it's most evident with the lowest level things, 1 level 20 mage is several orders of magnitude more threatening than 40 basic orcs). If suitable gear is available and you're letting your players use splat books and stuff, it seems reasonable to me that a team of level 25 characters who know what they're up against could come up with some way to deal with this creature (though that may not be direct combat).

In theory, as of D&D 3.0 and 3.5 it's exponential - every 2 levels corresponds to a doubling of power. This is a little fuzzy for early levels (level 3 is more than twice the power of level 1, for instance), and breaks down past an 8 level difference or so, but it generally holds - within one class. Between classes balance is pretty terrible, particularly past level 6 or so. A level 20 fighter is quite possibly less powerful than even 1 level 10 Wizard, despite theoretically being able to handle 32 of them.

[Naron]

I thought of something funny, interesting eventually. Suppose that the T-1000 (from Terminator 2 movie) is magically teleported on Toril.
How would you describe the T-1000 in the D&D terms?
Based on what is shown in the film, I would say that the T-1000 has a high resistance to fire, cold, possibly electricity and possess darkvision. It is a shapechanger and is intelligent.
But what abilities and feats would have it? What AC? It would be immune to mind-affecting spells and abilities? Or magic? It would be an epic level character?
I'm really curious.

[Dugi]

He's made of metal, so his AC will be at least 40. He regenerates fairly quickly, so his regeneration is probably like 20. He can't die even if his hitpoints drop to zero, he has to be liquefied totally (killable only by fire, like trolls). His attacks however seem to quite imprecise, so his attack can't be more than 5. He can be harmed with cold and fire damage, as seen in the metallurgy factory. There is no information about his resistance to sonic, negative, positive, divine or lightning damage, he's clearly immune to poison. He should be affected by lightning or acid damage logically, because his particles are very likely to use electricity to communicate and his particles have a large total surface and acids react with metals.

So, I expect something like this:
AC: 45 (most things except bullets can't even cause visible damage to him him)
Regeneration: 20 (heals bullet wounds in seconds)
Hitpoints: 1000 (it took him like a minute to regenerate from being totally shattered)
Attack: natural weapon (attack 3/-2/-7/-12/-17/-22/-27, damage 4d6)
Strength: 50
Agilility: 25
Intelligence: 20
Wisdom: 5
Constitution: 40
Charisma: 30
Class: Outsider (35)
Feats:
Troll immortality (can't die unless thrown into molten metal)
Ultimate Improved Shapeshifting (can shift to anything, unlimited uses)
Spell Immunity: Mind affecting
Spell Immunity: Illusion
Spell Immunity: Necromancy
Spell Immunity: Time Travel Machine Destruction
Nightvision
Increased movement speed: 100%

[Naron]

Wow, it loooks like he would be an epic character (about lvl 35 outsider, right?).
I think he's also immune to diseases.
How have you deduced these stats (str., int., etc)?
With these stats, I also think he would be a capable wizard, once he learn how the magic works. Am I right?

[Dugi]

He would not be a good wizard, he's basically a construct and constructs can't use magic, only activate some enchantments cast on them - and he wasn't enchanted. And judging from the aggressive and combat-loving behaviour of the terminators, he's more likely to prefer the way of the fighter.

I deduced the attributes from his behaviour - he was extremely strong (he could kill people even while shapeshifting) and resilient. His shapeshifting allowed him to look like anybody (that's for the charisma). He was quite intelligent and agile, but not any real wonder. His wisdom was low, he cared only about killing and nothing like philosophy seemed to be of any concern to any machine including Skynet.

Yes, I forgot about the immunity to human diseases, but he might be vulnerable to computer viruses.

His level is high because he could face opponents with greatly advanced weapons (machine guns are far better than swords seen in D&D) and defeat them with ease. But this all is just a wind guess, pure fantasy, keep it on mind.

[Naron]

But unlike the regular constructs, the T-1000 does have self-awareness and free will.
So you must be a living being to cast spells? But what about undeads? Intelligent undeads can use magic, thus I thought the T-1000 could do the same, if he has enough intelligence.
Perhaps I was wrong.

[Naron]

But the T-1000 is really a construct? I've read on the Wizards.com site that the constructs cannot heal themselves and cannot regenerate. The T-1000 can do this.
And, as I said, the T-1000 is sentient. Maybe he would be a pseudo-living entity?
I have forgot about alignment. I guess he would be neutral, he is not inherently evil or good.

[Dugi]

I can't believe this discussion is going here... We're on a clash of sci-fi and fantasy, great...

Thinking about the nature of T-1000's regenerative abilities, he isn't really regenerating, taking damage just changes his shape to allow him to achieve a huge damage reduction. So resisting damage stuns him and weakens him temporarily, but he doesn't really take damage. This isn't something definable in D&D terms, but let's try:
Damage reduction: physical 50/molten metal
Shapeshift when struck with more than 20 damage: Piece of junk (can shapeshift back, but it needs sacrificing all other actions in that turn)

T-1000 didn't show any self-awareness or free will, he was intelligent but all he seemed to think about was plotting how to kill John. Even T-100's free will seemed to be limited to human interaction and helping John, he didn't mind harming humans or killing himself and didn't seem to have any motivations of his own besides the orders the older John gave him. He wasn't much better than the most modern AI chatbot software that could fool a third of humans to think that they're real humans. Try chatting with cleverbot yourself.

I always assumed that the undead can cast magic because they used to be living and constructs can't because they never were living. I assumed that it's related to the fact that they are/were living, not to the fact that they possess some intelligence (if you check it, even an unintelligent cleric can cast spells).

His alignment is surely neutral evil, he doesn't give a damn about collateral damage and killing innocents, exists for the sole purpose of killing John and was never seen interacting with anybody in a friendly way. T-100 was also evil in my opinion, he obeyed orders but before he was forbidden to kill, he killed the bullies without thinking; and even after being forbidden to kill, he inflicted painful wounds instead.

[Naron]

Well, I like to mix fantasy with sci-fi. A sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic .
The T-1000 is sentient, that is mentioned in the novel. And he has free will. Skynet conditioned him to focus on the murder of John, but the T-1000 could have quit the mission. He could even turn against Skynet. Skynet was even feared him:

it was fully autonomous, and barely under the allegiance of its creator, SKYNET. SKYNET had hesitated before creating this latest weapon system. There were unpredictability factors related to the liquid poly-mimetic alloy's longevity and the ability to process commands without interpolating its own priorities over those of its creator. it was so volatile a construct that only in the last throes of defeat, only when it appeared that the Resistance would finally be able to mount an offensive against the inner command components of SKYNET, even threatening the Cheyenne Mountain complex itself, did SKYNET go ahead and create the T1000. Einstein once said that God didn't play dice with the universe. SKYNET had no choice..."

Cameron: And that thing in the box becomes a total wild card; it could go anywhere, do anything; it's a polymorphic metal robot that is nothing more than a kind of blob. I saw it as this mercury blob that could form into anything. It's powers were almost unlimited, and even in the future, they couldn't control it.

Thanks for trying to describe the T-1000 in the D&D terms.

[Dugi]

I don't like mixing fantasy with science fiction, and I also don't like sci-fi turns around totally absurd inventions, especially when the author tries to explain it in a wrong way. But that's maybe just because both of my studies are technically oriented and I know what can be (virtual reality, bioengineering, artificial intelligence, cyborgs, energetic weapons), what might be (faster than light travel, hive mind, aliens, lightsabres, immortality, teleport) and what can't be (time travel, psychics, The Doctor, subatomic self-replicating nanarobots). With the emergence of quantum physics, sci-fi got worse, because amateur misinterpretations of quantum physics (especially if related to quantum entanglement) can allow you to explain anything.

I haven't read the Terminator novel, I have just seen the film. And in the film, he didn't seem to have free will. I based my explanation on the film. Anyway, I find that text quite contradictory with the film Terminator 3. If T-1000 was such a risky creation that Skynet created because of its desperate situation, how did it happen that despite the failure in T-1000's mission, Skynet survived for for several years and even got to create T-X the Not-Badass-Enough-Terminator. Even years after the creation of T-1000 in a very desperate situation, Skynet still had a chance to win by killing enemy commanders (if a battle is in a really bad situation, replacing a few good generals by worse generals will not change the situation). Also, T-X was its even more advanced version (T-1000 + huge firepower - badassery), if T-1000 was absolutely risky, how insane Skynet got to create T-X then?