Questions about D&D.

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Naron
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Re: Questions about D&D.

Post by Naron »

Concerning the gods, I understand now that their dependence on the people's faith was imposed by Ao. This implies that before this measure, the gods did not have this problem.
Being a god does not seem so great in the D&D universe.
Because there are threats that can destroy all the gods. Such a threat is Pandorym. From what I understand, Pandorym is an entity originating from a mysterious plane of the universe.
It was summoned by a group of wizards of a ancient empire lost in the mists of history.
These wizards have wanted in this way to blackmail the gods, but they were exterminated (by the gods) .
Pandorym was separated during the ritual invocation into two parts, the mind and the body.
Its body is a sphere of annihilation , and its mind is imprisoned in a crystal.
If Pandorym is re-united, it can and will kill all the gods .
It is specified that this will lead to the end of the universe .
Here I have a further question : it is the universe as a whole or only Ao's crystal sphere?
I understand that the D&D universe is composed of an infinite number of planes and the Prime Material plane contains the crystal spheres and these spheres contain themselves planetary systems. And every crystal sphere is created and governed by an overgod.
I understand correctly the D&D cosmology?
Regarding Pandorym, I find it very interesting. A being (or thing) that can kill all the gods must be very powerful.
From the description, Pandorym seems to me that it is a sentient black hole.
I deduce this from the fact that its body is a sphere of annihilation, and the adjectives used ("impossible might of Pandorym's mind", etc.).
I hope I have not become too boring. I'm trying to explore the D&D universe. :)
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taptap
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Re: Questions about D&D.

Post by taptap »

Math indeed rocks, but a roleplaying game (with real people) that requires math to play sucks. Try story telling role playing, could be so much more rewarding.
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Re: Questions about D&D.

Post by Naron »

Talking about mathematics, and since I mentioned Pandorym, how powerful is the mind shard of Pandorym with these stats:
Mind Shard of Pandorym CR 25, HP 475 (50 HD), fast healing 30; DR 15/epic and good LE Huge outsider (evil, incorporeal, psionic)
Init +2; Senses darkvision 600 ft., blindsight 600 ft., detect thoughts, low-light vision, true seeing; Listen +63, Spot +63 Aura mental subjugation (30 ft., Will DC 48), psionic draw Languages telepathy 1,000 ft., tongues
AC 39, touch 25, flat-footed 37 Miss Chance 50% (incorporeal)
Immune anathematic secrecy (malefic property), critical hits, sneak attacks, sonic; elder evil immunities
Resist cold 20, fire 20, negative energy 10, positive energy 10; SR 35
Fort +36, Ref +33, Will +39
Speed fly 30 ft. (perfect) (6 squares)

Melee incorporeal touch +50 (1d6 plus 2 per divine caster level of target)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Base Atk +50; Grp +58
Atk Options Chosen of Evil, Empower Power, Epic Psionic Focus, Improved Metapsionics, Opportunity Power, Quicken Power, Twin Power, aligned strike (evil)
Special Actions Dark Speech, divine enervation (malefic property), divinity siphon, summon undead 3/day, vampiric ego whip 1/1d4 rounds

Power Points/Day 483; Telepath Powers Known (ML 20th):
9th—apopsi (DC 31), microcosm, psychic chirurgery (DC 31), reality revision (DC 31), urge extermination
8th—bend reality (DC 30), matter manipulation, recall death (DC 30)
7th—crisis of life (DC 29), divert teleport (DC 29), energy claw, energy wave (DC 29), ultrablast (DC 29)
6th—mass cloud mind (DC 28), co-opt concentration (DC 28), psionic disintegrate (+50 ranged touch, DC 28), stygian bolt (DC 28)
5th—catapsi (DC 27), ectoplasmic shambler, leech field, mind probe (DC 27), psychic crush (DC 27), shatter mind blank (DC 27)
4th—death urge (DC 26), psionic dominate (DC 26), thieving mindlink (DC 26), schism
3rd—crisis of breath (DC 25), dimension twister (DC 26), dismiss ectoplasm (DC 25), dispel psionics, hostile empathic transfer (+50 incorporeal touch, DC 25)
2nd—brain lock (DC 24), concussion blast, read thoughts (DC 24), psionic suggestion (DC 24)
1st—deceleration (DC 23), entangling ectoplasm, force screen, sense link

Psi-Like Abilities (ML 20th):
At will—aura sight, detect hostile intent, detect psionics, far hand, psionic identify, psionic knock, know direction and location, psionic lock, mindlink (DC 23), missive, touchsight
3/day—fate of one, inertial armor†, null psionics field, psionic telekinetic sphere (DC 31), reddopsi
1/day—dispelling buffer, energy ball (DC 27), energy cone (DC 26), energy current (DC 28), energy missile (DC 25), hypercognition, tornado blast (DC 32)
† already manifested

Abilities Str —, Dex 15, Con 20, Int 35, Wis 31, Cha 37
SQ corporealize, incorporeal traits, limited existence, nondetection, nonlinear time awareness, sign (seal of binding), swift focus, telepathic backlash

Feats Ability Focus (vampiric ego whip), Chosen of Evil, Dark Speech, Dark Whispers, Empower Power, Epic Fortitude, Epic Reflexes, Epic Psionic Focus, Evil Brand, Improved Metapsionics (5), Iron Will, Filthy Outburst, Opportunity Power, Power Knowledge (2), Psionic Meditation, Psionic Talent (5), Quicken Power, Twin Power

Skills Autohypnosis +64, Bluff +66, Concentration +58, Decipher Script +65, Diplomacy +78, Disguise +13 (+19 acting), Gather Information +66, Intimidate +72, Knowledge (arcana) +65, Knowledge (psionics) +71, Knowledge
(religion) +65, Knowledge (the planes) +65, Listen +63, Psicraft +71 (+77 addressing power stones) Search +65, Sense Motive +63, Sleight of Hand +61, Spellcraft +71 (+77 deciphering scrolls), Spot +63, Survival +10 (+16 on other
planes, +16 following tracks), Use Magic Device +66 (+72 scrolls), Use Psionic Device +66 (+72 power stones)

Detect Thoughts (Su) As the detect thoughts spell (PH 220); continuous. This ability provides basic information as if from concentrating for 1 round. A mind shard can focus for additional rounds to gain more information.

True Seeing (Su) As the true seeing spell; continuous; caster level 20th.

Mental Subjugation (Su) Creatures within 30 feet of a mind shard must succeed on a DC 48 Will save every round or be affected as if by a dominate monster spell (CL 25th). A creature that succeeds on this saving throw takes 1 point
of Wisdom damage instead. This is a mind-affecting ability.

Psionic Draw (Su) When a creature within 90 feet spends power points to manifest a psionic power, the creature must succeed on a Concentration check (DC 15 + power level) or spend double the normal number of power points. Even if the creature succeeds, the mind shard regains a number of power points equal to the normal cost of the power. If a creature fails the check and doesn’t have enough power points to manifest the power, the power doesn’t manifest and no power points are lost.

Divine Enervation (Su) All divine spellcasters lose the ability to regain spells so long as they remain within 1,000 miles of a mind shard of Pandorym. This interdiction does not interfere with spellcasting.

Divinity Siphon (Su) As a standard action, a mind shard of Pandorym can form a siphoning bond with a creature within 90 feet that can cast divine spells or has a divine caster level of at least 1st. The caster must make a DC 48 Will save to resist this ability. If the bond is established, the caster gains 1d4 negative levels per round. For each negative level the caster gains, the mind shard heals 20 hit points. The bond lasts for up to 10 rounds, or until the mind shard breaks it or the caster dies. A caster who receives as many negative levels as Hit Dice dies and rises as a dread wraith in the following round. A mind shard can have only one siphoning bond active at a time. Maintaining a bond requires no effort.

Summon Undead (Su) Three times per day, a mind shard of Pandorym can summon one of the following undead groups:
2d4 allips, 1d3 ethereal oozes, 2d4 quells, 1d6 wraiths, or 1d3 dread wraiths.
The undead arrive in 1d4 rounds and serve for 24 hours or until released.

Vampiric Ego Whip (Su) As the ego whip power (DC 27), but requires only a swift action, and the mind shard regains 2 power points per point of damage dealt. A mind shard can use this ability once every 1d4 rounds.

Psionics (Ex) A mind shard of Pandorym can expend the equivalent of 20,000 XP on powers that have an XP cost.

Anathematic Secrecy (Su) A mind shard of Pandorym is immune to all divine divination spell effects.

Corporealize (Su) As a move action, a mind shard of Pandorym can materialize a part of itself into a corporeal form, usually a pseudopod or tentacle. The mind shard uses this ability to interact with the material world outside
of combat—picking up or moving objects, opening doors, and so on. It corporealizes in combat only to move an item out of the reach of an enemy, to disarm a foe wielding a ghost touch weapon, or to otherwise remove something that can harm it. A mind shard can have up to twelve corporeal appendages in existence at one time. An opponent can make sunder attempts against an appendage as if it were a weapon. An appendage has 40 hit points and does not gain a deflection bonus to Armor Class (giving it an AC of 26). Severing the appendage deals 20 points of damage to the mind shard.

Limited Existence (Ex) A mind shard of Pandorym exists for only 24 hours before evaporating. A mind shard reduced to 0 hit points immediately evaporates. A mind shard’s evaporation does not affect Pandorym’s mind in any way.

Nondetection (Su) As the nondetection spell; continuous; caster level 20th.

Nonlinear Time Awareness (Su) As a native of an alien reality, Pandorym senses the flow of time differently from how ordinary creatures do. This ability grants a mind shard of Pandorym an insight bonus to its Armor Class equal to its Intelligence modifier (usually +12).

Swift Focus (Ex) Three times per day, a mind shard of Pandorym can regain its psionic focus as a swift action. Doing so requires a DC 40 Concentration check.

Telepathic Backlash (Su) Whenever a creature targets a mind shard of Pandorym with a telepathy power or an enchantment spell, the manifesting or casting creature must immediately make a DC 48 Will save. A creature that fails this save is affected as by a feeblemind spell.

Immunities (Ex) Elder evils have immunity to polymorphing, petrification, and any other spell or ability that alters their form. They are not subject to energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, or death from massive damage. They are immune to mind-affecting spells and abilities. Most elder evils have immunity to a specific energy type, depending on their nature
?

Dugi, if you do not mind, can you translate those stats into something more understandable?
An entity with these stats is a formidable opponent or not?
I'm really curious. For me, the D&D stats are meaningless codes (yet).
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Dugi
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Re: Questions about D&D.

Post by Dugi »

I can't quite decipher it. It looks like a build for some sort of heavy mod, because it uses a race and tons of abilities, skills, feats and spells that aren't in the stadard D&D rules (but the canon lore is so vast that these things should be acceptable). Compared to standard rules, it is really strong, but who knows what else that mod adds. Or maybe it is some creature from a story that somebody described with numbers.
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Re: Questions about D&D.

Post by Naron »

Dugi, if it helps, these stats are listed in the book Elder Evils, which I understand it is canon.
And the skills described seem to be psionic in nature, according to the same book. Have you read this book? It can be read on Scribd (albeit with interruptions).
I wonder if Efraim could defeat the mind shard of Pandorym. :)
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Re: Questions about D&D.

Post by Dixie »

IIRC, that CR 25 thing at the start means it should be a decent but not overly hard challenge for a group of 5 (or was it 4?) lv 25 adventurers. Level 25 is quite advanced (standard heroes cap at lv 20), but it isn't overly epic either.
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Re: Questions about D&D.

Post by Dugi »

No, I haven't. I have a scribd account, so I might get it and read it once that I finish reading DemonWars.

I said that it can be cannon lore, though it is not a part of any game mechanics. If somebody made up the exact mechanics, we can better guess how strong is it and can't insert it into some game or mod badly interpreted. Anyway, it's level appears to be 30 or even more, that is something that can challenge all sorts of powerful beings, like dracoliches, demons/devils, angels etc. However, it can't beat archdevils/archdemons, gods, archangels and other rulers of realms (just judging from D&D video games and some lore I've read).
I wonder if Efraim could defeat the mind shard of Pandorym.
Psionic powers have no effect on undead...
But thinking about the later parts when Efraim was alive, they should be quite equal - being not exactly mortal, Efraim is resistant to the shard's powers to some extent, but not fully, just as the shard isn't quite a physical being and is resistant to Efraim's weapons. Both are legendary beings with access to magic, drain, weakening foes, regeneration and necromancy.
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Re: Questions about D&D.

Post by Velensk »

I don't know too much about how psionics work in D&D but I can tell you some basic facts assuming that this is for 3rd Edition:

It's a massive evil ghost like creature with powerful psyonic abilities. It's resistant or immune to most kinds of attack, spells, and special abilities to the point where any character who isn't a one man army shouldn't even try and even a few who are will have their main capabilities nullified. Even without these notes it's tougher and harder to hit than a dragon.
-Most notably everyone who even gets close to it will almost immediately become controlled by it unless they can make a DC 48 save (which is to say to roll a 48 or better on a D20 plus modifiers, it's worth noting that being level 20 in a class that gives this kind of resistance would give +12 at the standard max level and the highest natural value possible for the relevant stat would be +5, so without some kind of special magical help even being an epic level character with an iron will you'd still instantly be dominated just by it coming close. Even if you manage to avoid being dominated you'll start losing your wisdom which is the stat which gives you resistance to this domination and you have to keep resisting every turn you're in 30 feet.
-It has several other rather nasty abilities.
-However, it does have one massive weakness in that it only exists for one full day after which it evaporates. So it can be outlived if you can avoid it.
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Re: Questions about D&D.

Post by Naron »

Dugi wrote:No, I haven't. I have a scribd account, so I might get it and read it once that I finish reading DemonWars.

I said that it can be cannon lore, though it is not a part of any game mechanics. If somebody made up the exact mechanics, we can better guess how strong is it and can't insert it into some game or mod badly interpreted. Anyway, it's level appears to be 30 or even more, that is something that can challenge all sorts of powerful beings, like dracoliches, demons/devils, angels etc. However, it can't beat archdevils/archdemons, gods, archangels and other rulers of realms (just judging from D&D video games and some lore I've read).
I have read the book and the chapter about Pandorym caught my attention because it seemed like the most interesting story.
Mind shard of Pandorym is just an emanation of temporary existence (24 hours). Pandorym itself is much stronger. In fact, the book says clearly that if Pandorym's mind is released and reunited with its body, it is equivalent to end of campaign/universe.
I wonder if Efraim could defeat the mind shard of Pandorym.
Psionic powers have no effect on undead...
But thinking about the later parts when Efraim was alive, they should be quite equal - being not exactly mortal, Efraim is resistant to the shard's powers to some extent, but not fully, just as the shard isn't quite a physical being and is resistant to Efraim's weapons. Both are legendary beings with access to magic, drain, weakening foes, regeneration and necromancy.
Yes, I was referring to Efraim as demigod, a living being, not undead. If Efraim is approximately equal to the mind shard, not the same thing can be said about Efraim vs Pandorym Unified because the latter can kill all D&D gods.
Velensk wrote:I don't know too much about how psionics work in D&D but I can tell you some basic facts assuming that this is for 3rd Edition:

It's a massive evil ghost like creature with powerful psyonic abilities. It's resistant or immune to most kinds of attack, spells, and special abilities to the point where any character who isn't a one man army shouldn't even try and even a few who are will have their main capabilities nullified. Even without these notes it's tougher and harder to hit than a dragon.
-Most notably everyone who even gets close to it will almost immediately become controlled by it unless they can make a DC 48 save (which is to say to roll a 48 or better on a D20 plus modifiers, it's worth noting that being level 20 in a class that gives this kind of resistance would give +12 at the standard max level and the highest natural value possible for the relevant stat would be +5, so without some kind of special magical help even being an epic level character with an iron will you'd still instantly be dominated just by it coming close. Even if you manage to avoid being dominated you'll start losing your wisdom which is the stat which gives you resistance to this domination and you have to keep resisting every turn you're in 30 feet.
-It has several other rather nasty abilities.
-However, it does have one massive weakness in that it only exists for one full day after which it evaporates. So it can be outlived if you can avoid it.
The weakness you talk about is perhaps the only advantage against this entity.
I say "perhaps" because if the crystal that imprisons Pandorym's mind is damaged (a mind-shard is formed when the crystal is damaged, but not destroyed), another mind shard are formed in 1d4 rounds (what is this? 4 minutes ?).
The book says clearly that shard's destruction has no negative effect on Pandorym itself. Which means that Pandorym could release (and lose) as many successive shards as long as the crystal is damaged.
Scary, is not it?
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Re: Questions about D&D.

Post by Dixie »

Naron wrote: ... another mind shard are formed in 1d4 rounds (what is this? 4 minutes ?).
IIRC, a round is ~6 seconds, so 1d4 rounds means between ~6 and ~32 seconds.
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Naron
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Re: Questions about D&D.

Post by Naron »

Dixie wrote:
Naron wrote: ... another mind shard are formed in 1d4 rounds (what is this? 4 minutes ?).
IIRC, a round is ~6 seconds, so 1d4 rounds means between ~6 and ~32 seconds.
Excuse me, but 6 * 4 is 24. It should be this: between ~ 6 and ~ 24 seconds? I may be wrong, math is not my forte. :)
However, it means that you have to be fast, otherwise you will have to fight again the mind shard.
My poor level 5 Paladin would have big problems with this entity. Just kidding. Pandorym do not exist in NWN or any video game (from what I know).
From what I understood from the book, Elder Evils are concepts. They are intended to be subject to a campaign of epic proportions. Only legendary heroes can fight against them.
Some of the Elder Evils can not be defeated directly, even by these heroes. Instead, the heroes battle with the Aspects of these entities.
An example is even Pandorym. Heroes can not fight it directly, but only with the its mind shard. That's why I wanted to know how strong is the aforementioned mind shard.
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Re: Questions about D&D.

Post by Naron »

I'm curious: how much is a Strength of 58? The Aspect of Atropus has this ability.
In other words, how strong physically is a creature with this ability in the D&D universe?
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Re: Questions about D&D.

Post by Dugi »

Strength 58 is more strength than Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stalone and Steven Segal together. With such strength, you can punch through rocks and tear down castle walls.

A max level character in NWN1 can have 50 strength if choosing all possibilities to have an extreme strength (half-orc race, strength maxed at the beginning, all 10 attribute points when advancing put into strength, Red Dragon Disciple class for +8 strength, Belt of Storm Giant Strength and a strength-increasing spell active). 25 strength is pretty much anyway, it is required to get Devastating Critical, a powerful feat that can be used to kill a Balor with a single blow.
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Re: Questions about D&D.

Post by Naron »

Dugi, I would like to ask your opinion about something, of course if that does not bother you. Recently I started "playing" with the NWN toolset. Nothing serious, I just want to inspect the "anatomy" of a NWN module (downloaded random from the NWN Vault), out of curiosity. I can say that it looks quite complex for me.
I found a creature that seems quite strange to me. It is listed as having the half-elf race and the outsider class, alignment: chaotic good. It also has wings and a CR of 23.
My curiosity: there is such a creature with such features canonically? In other words, is it listed in any official D&D source? I think it is a half-celestial but I'm not sure. I'm not sure of this because the description states that it was created on the Prime Material Plane. If it was created in this way (and not summoned), how can it be an outsider?
If I understand correctly, an outsider is a native being of a different plane than the prime material.
How can it be then "created" on the Prime? Perhaps the creator was a god or this is a bug in the description?
I know, it's a trivial curiosity, but I thought I ask this because so I can learn something.
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Re: Questions about D&D.

Post by Dugi »

Outsiders are creatures coming from other planes, usually through summoning spells, but they can enter Prime also using their own magic. The difference between the planes usually gives them some advantages, like damage resistance, true seeing or some racial spells. Creatures that populate more planes including Prime, like dragons, illithids or basilisks aren't outsiders. Outsiders are usually demons, angels, barghests, githyanki, uthraki and such.

The creature you're referring to is probably some kind of angel. The half-elf race is there probably just to give her that not-exactly-human appearance, the wings are usually connected with angels. Many types of angels are chaotic good. It is probably a deva, I've seen one in the Hordes of the Underdark datadisk of NWN and she looked like that.

I don't think that it fits their canon lore to say that an outsider was created on Prime. They may be born there from outsider parents (or half outsider half something normal), but not created, that would imply their nativeness on Prime, which opposes the outsider classification by definition. So I think that the creator of that add-on made a mistake or had a longer backstory somewhere within the add-on's story.

Anyway, if you want to create something in NWN toolset, I suggest you to get its CEP (community expansion pack) somewhere, it has a lot of new things you can use and also a default add-on that has all variables and scripts set up and allows you just to draw the map, populate it with (easily customisable) monsters and play.
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