Looking for donations

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West
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Looking for donations

Post by West » August 19th, 2010, 9:43 pm

I feel bad about posting seemingly selfish stuff like this, but I guess it can't hurt asking. As you may know, I basically give all my music away for free, allowing people to use it in any way they like as long as I receive credit. In fact I've never even considered trying to sell any of my tunes. I mean, what's the point when not even the big household names make any significant sales these days? It's not like I'm making Top 40 music.

So IOW, I don't make a cent from my music and right now I have zero budget for any music-related purchases. Still, there's always these little expenses that add up. Instruments need new strings, bad cables need replacing, my mic preamp has a fried power supply, etc. Plus that I'm trying to save up money for a true stereo convo reverb.

Getting to the point: if you like my work and would like to support my music making, please consider donating a sum of your choice. I would be infinitely grateful, no matter the amount. The easiest way is using paypal; my email address is west AT scriptorium DOT se.

There, I've said it. Now I'll go hide and feel like a beggar.

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SpoOkyMagician
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Re: Looking for donations

Post by SpoOkyMagician » August 19th, 2010, 10:42 pm

points to this thread: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31247 (thanks for making this track by the way)

There are up's and down's to what you are saying.

you do sound like a beggar but meh. I can understand for it... Having a skill in something (that some/very little people only have. I for example would of loved to be a musician but, it's just not me. I have the math stuff down with music but when it comes to creativity... I lack that... Same for art... I lack creativity or... imagination... either one I guess... Or it could just be my impatience... I could always work on that too but w/e...) Being payed for a skill raises your ... confidence with your skill? (It would make you hopefully improve and stride you to do better in it as well...) Sorry, I am beginning to ramble on again... I'll just stop here...

edit: i was going to ramble on something about myself that was similar but, I won't bother...

edit: I don't think it's selfish either. (For this time period anyway... You got to make it though life somehow... sadly enough, its all about money/currency I think... If only we could eliminate money/currency... Life would be so much better... You would learn to improve yourself as a person... not the money/currency...) But again... sorry for rambling on again...

edit: as far as the topic goes, If I could, I could send you something but, I am not the kind of person that uses the internet to send money. (secure or not... I am just picky about this kind of thing...) Anyway, I am broke so, I can't donate anything sadly enough... (gives your an e-maginary $1 bill.)
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Eleazar
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Re: Looking for donations

Post by Eleazar » August 19th, 2010, 11:43 pm

You might want to look in to kickstarter. At least in some cases it seems to be a good way to raise money for creative projects.

Essentially you use kickstarter to announce: "if people pledge X amount of money, then i will produce a specified creative work".
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Moribund
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Re: Looking for donations

Post by Moribund » August 20th, 2010, 12:19 am

What makes you think that big name artists don't make a lot of money, even from music sales alone? Many obscure musicians have had success with internet distribution of their songs, ie Jonathan Coulton.

That aside I don't think it is unreasonable for you to ask for a handout.

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Re: Looking for donations

Post by Captain_Wrathbow » August 20th, 2010, 1:25 am

I'd donate to you except that I'm just a teenager with no paypal account or money of my own. :augh:

I absolutely love your music, in fact half the music on my mp3 player is wesnoth music, and a good deal of those are yours. :D (my music tastes are somewhat different from most other american teenagers :P )

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Re: Looking for donations

Post by johndh » August 20th, 2010, 4:40 am

You got it, chief. :Awesome:
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.

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Re: Looking for donations

Post by artisticdude » August 20th, 2010, 5:03 am

Captain_Wrathbow wrote:I'd donate to you except that I'm just a teenager with no paypal account or money of my own. :augh:

I absolutely love your music, in fact half the music on my mp3 player is wesnoth music, and a good deal of those are yours. :D (my music tastes are somewhat different from most other american teenagers :P )
I'm in a similar position myself, unfortunately. :( But I'm a great fan of your work, and were I able to do so I would most certainly donate. Gosh, I feel like a total loser right now.
West wrote:There, I've said it. Now I'll go hide and feel like a beggar.
I think you're viewing it in the wrong light. If you were asking for money for no reason at all, or for a reason that profits no one except yourself, I'd consider that begging. But people are getting more great free music by donating to you, so I'd think of it as more of an exchange rather than begging. :)
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norbert
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Re: Looking for donations

Post by norbert » August 20th, 2010, 9:16 am

West wrote:There, I've said it. Now I'll go hide and feel like a beggar.
Some days ago, shadowmaster wrote: "We aren't currently accepting donations since the Battle for Wesnoth Project has other, stable revenue sources to support our infrastructure and scholarship programs, so there wouldn't be much use for voluntary donations either way."

I've been thinking about the posts by West and shadowmaster.

The Wesnoth Project is a large, cooperative effort. The Credits section of the game has a list of people who worked on the core elements - so, excluding any UMC - of the game. That list has sections; where folks are listed depends on the kind of content they worked on: some people work(ed) on code, some on music, some on art, and so on. However, all content is licensed under the GPLv2 and it's not the purpose of those sections to indicate how much effort the listed people put into their work.

West is listed, thus he worked (and works) on the core elements. According to the forum's legend, he is being acknowledged as a "Developer". He requested donations of any amount on the Off-Topic board, this thread. In no way do I condemn his action - it's not (always) easy to ask for financial support - but I do think there's something wrong with this picture.

First of all, West points out there would be use for voluntary donations. Did he mention this to the others working on the core elements? Are there others who - like him - also work on the core elements and would welcome donations, but dare not write a post about it? Secondly, if part of the revenue Kyle makes goes to the Wesnoth Project, who exactly decides where the money goes; was West asked about his opinion? Thirdly, how much money does the Wesnoth Project make (advertising included) and how much - exactly - of all revenue is spend on what? Is there a good reason to keep this information from the general public?

I don't think West's post should be in Off-Topic, because it's on-topic. I also think something is wrong and maybe this thread should be closed. Those working on the core elements should probably (further) discuss this subject on the wesnoth-dev mailing list.

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Re: Looking for donations

Post by thespaceinvader » August 20th, 2010, 9:29 am

norbert wrote:Those working on the core elements should probably (further) discuss this subject on the wesnoth-dev mailing list.
QFT.

I've tried to start discussions about donations a couple of times on the ML, but noone's seemed terribly interested.
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Arisu
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Re: Looking for donations

Post by Arisu » August 20th, 2010, 10:37 am

There seems to be some problems with my internet banking account, so you'll have to wait a few more days I'm afraid.

Anyway, I will gladly donate something, I've been listening to your first two albums for a year or so now and I do really enjoy them (had no time to download the third yet but I'm sure it'll be ever better than the first two), so I feel somewhat obliged to donate something (better said, I felt guilty downloading them without paying anything, but at the time I was still a student, a poor student).

best of luck!

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Re: Looking for donations

Post by Midnight_Carnival » August 20th, 2010, 12:10 pm

Aah, the tragic irony of it.
You appeal to my idea of how an artist should be, making work and sharing it freely then asking people to show their appreciation. Two middle fingers and a rasberry to institutions and intelectual property, just "give me what you think my stuff is worth"

...it's ironic because I said I'd support people like that and right now I can't even support myself.
West if you're ever around I'll buy you a beer
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...apparenly we can't go with it or something.

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West
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Re: Looking for donations

Post by West » August 20th, 2010, 12:27 pm

spookymagician wrote:(gives your an e-maginary $1 bill.)
Perhaps an imaginary thank you is in order? (just kidding). I perfectly understand, I know what it's like being broke.
Eleazar wrote:You might want to look in to kickstarter. At least in some cases it seems to be a good way to raise money for creative projects.
Thanks for the tip Eleazar, I'll have a look at it.
Moribund wrote:What makes you think that big name artists don't make a lot of money, even from music sales alone?
Uh... because a lot of them are whining about people not buying their albums anymore?
Captain_Wrathbow wrote:I'd donate to you except that I'm just a teenager with no paypal account or money of my own. :augh:
No problem! I'm not expecting everyone to donate (in fact I don't expect *anyone* to donate), just those who feel that they can afford it.
johndh wrote:You got it, chief. :Awesome:
Thank you johndh! Much appreciated!
artisticdude wrote:But I'm a great fan of your work, and were I able to do so I would most certainly donate. Gosh, I feel like a total loser right now.
Hey, don't worry about it. The last thing I want is people feeling bad because they *can't* donate. If I expected to be paid I wouldn't be giving the music away, ya know? :)
artisticdude wrote:I think you're viewing it in the wrong light. If you were asking for money for no reason at all, or for a reason that profits no one except yourself, I'd consider that begging. But people are getting more great free music by donating to you, so I'd think of it as more of an exchange rather than begging. :)
Yes, I suppose. But then again I feel weird about asking for money for stuff that no one asked me to write in the first place.
norbert wrote:Did he mention this to the others working on the core elements?
No. I always assumed that whatever money the project makes goes towards server costs and stuff like that.
norbert wrote:I also think something is wrong and maybe this thread should be closed. Those working on the core elements should probably (further) discuss this subject on the wesnoth-dev mailing list.
Why should it be closed? This request was directed towards the community in general, not the Wesnoth project itself.
Arisu wrote:Anyway, I will gladly donate something, I've been listening to your first two albums for a year or so now and I do really enjoy them (had no time to download the third yet but I'm sure it'll be ever better than the first two), so I feel somewhat obliged to donate something (better said, I felt guilty downloading them without paying anything, but at the time I was still a student, a poor student).
Thank you Arisu! Like I said above, I don't want anyone feeling bad because they can't "pay" for my music, because I am after all giving it away for free. But right now I'm broke and it just dawned on me that if I'm ever going to get some donations, I need to start asking people to donate. :)

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West
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Re: Looking for donations

Post by West » August 20th, 2010, 12:30 pm

Midnight_Carnival wrote:West if you're ever around I'll buy you a beer
signed in blood
Sounds good to me! :)

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norbert
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Re: Looking for donations

Post by norbert » August 20th, 2010, 2:11 pm

West wrote:
norbert wrote:I also think something is wrong and maybe this thread should be closed. Those working on the core elements should probably (further) discuss this subject on the wesnoth-dev mailing list.
Why should it be closed? This request was directed towards the community in general, not the Wesnoth project itself.
I wrote that maybe it should be closed. Of course, that's just my opinion as an 'outsider'. I'll try to explain to you why I wrote it. As far as I know, Dave and others believe that the Wesnoth Project does not need any donations. You write that your request is not directed towards the Wesnoth Project. What I tried to explain in my previous post is that you are (your work is) in fact part of that project. Apparently one or more developer(s) working on the core elements believe that donations would be useful. Your post seems to contradict what others have written on this forum and elsewhere.

Other developers might (also) be short on money and would like to receive donations, but maybe they are reluctant to mention this on a public forum. If there are others, how should the donations be collected and divided? I wrote that something is "wrong", because I deduct from various (recent) messages by developers that within the project there is no clear stance on the usefulness of voluntary donations, how to collect those, who should receive them, and so on. This thread is partial proof of this.

This thread might also be unnecessary and might go against something you could agree on in the (near) future. It skips an important discussion; that about voluntary donations: who collects them, how, who receives what, and so on. Let's assume - so, merely hypothetically - that the folks working on the core elements of the game would agree that donations could be useful after all, because some of the developers could use the money to pay for (better) equipment. The project as a whole could then collect the donations and spread them (evenly) among the developers who request for financial support.

A donate button on the front page reaches a lot more people than a thread on the Off-Topic board. It also means that individual developers wouldn't need to - shouldn't - request for donations. Again, this is all in theory, but this thread just ignores these options, the discussion that could take place, the fact that developers disagree on the usefulness of donations, and so on.

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Zarel
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Re: Looking for donations

Post by Zarel » August 20th, 2010, 4:08 pm

Also consider Flattr. They do skip 10% off the top, though, but for smaller donations I think it might be better than PayPal.
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