A Hopefully Non-Sexist Survey

[Icarusvogel]

I think it's also related to the name reading "both", possibly interpretable as "wesnoth for both genders", in precisely a poll-thread about genders (where most are guys, might I add)

IVogel, don't take it as an insult, typos happen and if they are fun... besides Dixie really hit the spot.

Greetz
HomerJ

I didn't take it as an insult. A wave of embarresment passed over me, then seconds later, I was grinning, and a few minutes on, I was laughing over myself.

[Gwynnedrion]

I haven't decided yet... Sorry? Nah, just kidding, I'm a guy.

[Sapient]

Do not make jokes about differences between the genders in this polling thread. Start a separate thread if you must.

The only valid topic here is to objectively and accurately collect results of the poll.
Do not make me keep reminding you. Thanks.

[Elvish_Pillager]

This poll has no option that fits me.

[IPS]

97% men
3% girls.


In this forum there is a woman between 32.22 men... that is boring :/

[Dixie]

I fail to see what it changes. As far as I'm concerned, you're all just some gender-less avatars writing stuff on a forum Plus, even I'd be that much only meeting online women, the community is scattered all around the world. I'd be much better going somewhere where people from my area go than on the Wesnoth forums to meet girls.

[Iris]

This thread has gone waaaaay downhill, so maybe it'd be best for now to ignore it until it gets shred into tiny bits in the autopruner.

[Zachron]

97% men
3% girls...

So apparently all of our male members are adults and all of our female members are children? Huh?

[Zarel]

97% men
3% girls...

So apparently all of our male members are adults and all of our female members are children? Huh?

"Girl" is often used as a term to refer to [young] adult females, as youth (and the physical attractiveness that goes along with it) is relatively a more desirable quality for that gender. For males, however, maturity is relatively more valued, hence "men" being used to refer to [young] adult males.

[Sapient]

Since we know that there are trans-gender individuals playing Wesnoth, if this poll is done again, it should probably include those options. For example:

- genetic male, self-identified as male
- genetic male, self-identified as female
- genetic male, self-identified as neither
- genetic female, self-identified as female
- genetic female, self-identified as male
- genetic female, self-identified as neither

Before I get any oddball questions, "genetic" determination of gender here goes not refer to physical traits or surgeries performed but to the sex chromosome combination (even abnormal sex chromosome combinations are said to be either male or female). If we find that there is a huge transgender population then that could be another topic.

Then by including the both the genetic and self-identified information, people who are atypical could more easily participate and choose which option applies to them, and everyone else could more easily interpret the results.

[Elvish_Pillager]

"Girl" is often used as a term to refer to [young] adult females, as youth (and the physical attractiveness that goes along with it) is relatively a more desirable quality for that gender. For males, however, maturity is relatively more valued, hence "men" being used to refer to [young] adult males.

So basically, you're saying that the terminology is okay because society is universally sexist?

Sapient: I don't think most people know their genetics, except by guessing based on their expressed characteristics - and there are certainly enough intersexed individuals to warrant including that as a poll option (especially once you're already going to so much effort to offer alternate options.) I also am rather off-put by your suggested phrasing, since it implies that your genes are your "real" gender.

[Hulavuta]

1. It could be just a subconscious thing that IPS typed because that's what he hears.
2. It could just be because English isn't IPS' first language (hopefully).

[artisticdude]

This thread has gone waaaaay downhill, so maybe it'd be best for now to ignore it until it gets shred into tiny bits in the autopruner.

Judging from the conversation since that post, shadowmaster is right. This thread is... messed up.

[Sapient]

Sapient: I don't think most people know their genetics, except by guessing based on their expressed characteristics

I think that most people would be able to correctly hypothesize for polling purposes whether they are genetically male or female, despite the fascinating but extremely rare cases where it would be reported inaccurately by mistake. If you are debating that, then I would abandon any hope of having a logical conversation with you.

I also am rather off-put by your suggested phrasing, since it implies that your genes are your "real" gender.

Sorry. That was not my intention to cause offense, but merely to present the options in plain english so that they would be understood by as many individuals as possible and as clearly as possible. In any case, it was just an "example" and I never claimed it was perfect phrasing. If you are really interested in this idea, why don't you propose a better way of expressing each option so that it remains clear but is less offensive?

[Zarel]

Before I get any oddball questions, "genetic" determination of gender here goes not refer to physical traits or surgeries performed but to the sex chromosome combination (even abnormal sex chromosome combinations are said to be either male or female). If we find that there is a huge transgender population then that could be another topic.

Yeah, well, how many people actually know their chromosomal makeup? Unless you've impregnated someone [trustworthy], been impregnated, or taken a DNA test, you can only be ~99.9% sure.

It's really unnecessary to go into that much detail unless we're secretly constructing a scientific study or something. Just gender identity, m/f/neutral, should be enough for most purposes.

So basically, you're saying that the terminology is okay because society is universally sexist?

When did I ever say it was okay? I was just observing the reason why the terminology was used.

Anyway, there's a funny fact I like to render as "statistics is racist" or "reality is racist". The truth is, we aren't all equal. The solution isn't to ignore that and pretend we're all the same, but rather to treat people equally (or, in this case, how they want to be treated).