StarCraft II

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Jozrael
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StarCraft II

Post by Jozrael »

July 27th, 2010

I know there's another StarCraft thread I made but it wasn't really intended to be about StarCraft II. With beta patch 11 on the horizon (hopefully with the ability to publish our UMS maps to the beta pool at large) the custom scene is ripe for a harvesting. The melee is still in mild flux as more rebalancing and changes are added, and the game gives off the slickest of polished sheens.

I'm probably going to d/l it from Blizz a few days after the retail sale, so all of my patronage goes directly to the developer with their masterpiece franchise.

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Valkier
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by Valkier »

I absolutely refuse to purchase this actually. Not because I don't think it will be good. We all know Blizzard does not release a bad game. I take issue with the middle finger they gave their playerbase with this one. I want to be able to play my friends over a LAN is what it comes down to.

I hate having to rely on the internet to play a game the way I want to play it. I never enjoyed the single player version of Starcraft I. Multiplayer was what made it memorable for me, and they have taken that away. What if I have a crappy connection? What if I have NO connection? If I only get to play a game 50% of the time once I supposedly own it, then it's not really worth buying.

All this to punish pirates who won't end up being punished at all for this. If Blizzard does this for Diablo III then I won't be buying that either, and it makes me extremely sad on both accounts. But on the bright side, it means I have more time to make portraits for you guys. Well, you know. When I have time to do it at all in the first place...
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Zarel
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by Zarel »

Lately, games have had far worse DRM. c.f. Ubisoft enforcing "This game requires an active internet connection", which is the worst bit of DRM in existence.

I am, of course, boycotting Ubisoft for that. But Blizzard... I dunno, man. It's StarCraft II! They're much better at being nice to users, and supporting other OSes, and all that... They have one horrible mistake, yes, but is it enough to boycott? I dunno, man. You can't live if you boycott everything remotely wrong...
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Jetrel
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by Jetrel »

I can't ascribe to this, because (due to the lack of this sort of tough-to-crack copy-protection) I've stolen every single blizzard game I've ever played. I think it's time I man up and actually pay. :oops:

Valkier wrote:I absolutely refuse to purchase this actually. Not because I don't think it will be good. We all know Blizzard does not release a bad game. I take issue with the middle finger they gave their playerbase with this one. I want to be able to play my friends over a LAN is what it comes down to.

I hate having to rely on the internet to play a game the way I want to play it. I never enjoyed the single player version of Starcraft I. Multiplayer was what made it memorable for me, and they have taken that away. What if I have a crappy connection? What if I have NO connection? If I only get to play a game 50% of the time once I supposedly own it, then it's not really worth buying.

All this to punish pirates who won't end up being punished at all for this. If Blizzard does this for Diablo III then I won't be buying that either, and it makes me extremely sad on both accounts. But on the bright side, it means I have more time to make portraits for you guys. Well, you know. When I have time to do it at all in the first place...
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ancestral
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by ancestral »

I pre-ordered this for the beta key, and then when I typed it in it says it was already claimed :(

We'll see how long it takes for them to contact me back.
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Jozrael
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by Jozrael »

@ancestral: OUCH. That's GS or Amazon's fault, not Blizzards (most likely). Someone's snitching the keys :/. Good luck on that; I'd get an immediate refund and try again if that was faster.

OTOH...it does seem like it'd be easy to fake that if it wasn't trivial to deactivate claimed keys like this.

@Valkier: I really think you're being too hard on Blizz. Pretty much every single online game coming out of a major studio now has at LEAST this type of DRM on it or worse. Blizzard IS looking into LAN-like functionality; i.e., you get the same miniscule pings etc. However, you WILL have to all be online to begin the game together, at a minimum. It's the least they are 'forced' to do by pirates.

sLaughter
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by sLaughter »

I'm not that big a fan of Blizzard's RTS's (the need for micro puts me off, especially in Warcraft 3). However, I will be getting Starcraft 2 if for nothing else than to see what custom maps and mods people come up with.

Jozrael
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by Jozrael »

sLaughter: What do you like in a game? What types of micro do you not like? Do you not like the realtime aspect (do you not like FPS too?) Do you not like having to split your attention between macro and micro (i.e. do you not like arena type games like DotA, which are all micro?)

Smart choice for the customs though, I GUARANTEE there will be something that is exactly what you're looking for. A downside is that Blizzard is incentivizing closed source for the game (making premium maps, exceptional maplocking, etc.) You can still 'open source' your maps though.

sLaughter
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by sLaughter »

The reason I don't like micro is, when I play a computer game, I prefer to earn victory by out-thinking my opponent. When micro is involved, it feels like winning is dependent on having better brute reflexes and muscle memory. Besides, when a game emphasizes muscle memory it unnecessarily raises the barrier to entry.

Velensk
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by Velensk »

I enjoy the need to play quickly to win, it dose not feel to me any less like earning a victory. I would say that in a lot of micro it's not just brute reflexes and muscle memory but the ability to think quickly and thinking quicker is still out thinking. The barrier of entry is relevant because reguardless of how slow you are, I can guarentee that you'll run into someone who is slower.
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MCP
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by MCP »

sLaughter:
So you think the physical challenge of clicking and typing fast enough and with a high level of precision, keeps people from the Macro, that is out-thinking the opponent.

In starcraft, the physical execution is a tool of Macro. More 'macro' strategies are available with better physical execution. To be able to defeat someone in a particular match up because the opponent loses out on the micro management, will close down some of the opponent's strategies while opening others up for you.

It opens up a wider array of strategies, that is, one has to do with the execution they can muster, and try to come up with strategies that defeat some opponent's who have higher physical execution. On top of that, even if someone is amazingly skilled at physical execution, they can slip up or have a weakness, where the opponent has a chance to take a victory. This is exciting in many ways.

I agree on some level. For someone like me who is very casual about starcraft, I won't be playing with the top players unless I dedicated myself. I have the beta and it looks like Blizzard is trying to match players against other players of similar abilities. Someone can only move up by putting in hard time, lots of fights.

Jozrael
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by Jozrael »

I /sign everything MCP said by the last two posters, and especially draw attention to Velensk's statement that the game is more about thinking quickly, not clicking quickly. Something with an APM of 60 can absolutely defeat someone with an APM of 200 if they have more mastery of the game, even if the 200 APM player is good.

It's not how many clicks (after a certain minimum amount to be functional) but how you use them.

sLaughter
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by sLaughter »

MCP wrote: I agree on some level. For someone like me who is very casual about starcraft, I won't be playing with the top players unless I dedicated myself. I have the beta and it looks like Blizzard is trying to match players against other players of similar abilities. Someone can only move up by putting in hard time, lots of fights.
How's matchmaking for SC2 different from WC3? I could see my chances of buying it going up radically if smurfing is no longer possible.

A lot of people are actually telling me Starcraft 2 has a much lesser emphasis on micro, since you can select as many units as you want and unit abilities are used WC3 style, where only one unit in a group will cast. Those of you in the beta, does the micro in it feel different from in SC1?

Jozrael
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by Jozrael »

People now have one name attached to their blizzard account.

One key, one name.

Also the matchmaking is better in every way, with ladders being organized in such a way that it is very encouraging: EVERY player has a chance to win (as there are 100 or less players that you are competing against for #1). You play against people outside of your division, obviously, but you're competing with people inside your division for #1.

I.e. if I'm in bronze, and I beat a bunch of silvers, I will gain a lot of Elo. If I edge out #2 with more Elo than him, I win that division, even if I've never played him (and I probably haven't).

MCP
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by MCP »

Summary: It appears they are trying very hard to rank people appropriately.

Match-making is partially complete (beta). I like the system, but it will continue to be tweaked until release. The only problem right now is the initial ranking is based on 5-10 games (random). I think one should change rank more quickly in the beginning, but will slow down as the number of games grows, as their skill is observed.

There is some mystery to it right now because they reset the ranks and patch the game so often, but if you want to scan the SC2 forums at battle.net, feel free...

otherwise I suggest patience.

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