Yet another map generator [license discussion]

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MetalKing
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Re: Yet another map generator [license discussion]

Post by MetalKing »

If he include any gpl-licensed code in his software (for which he normally dont have any other license for) he is not allowed to distribute his binary WITHOUT distributing its source (for the parts he created/modified). Not just the copyright-owner is AFAIK able/allowed to force him either to remove or release the source but for sure i will check if he use any GPL-libs and if inform the concerning copyright-holder about the violation of his copyright. GPL defends strong and active their rights. Even large Companies omit GPL-Violations resp. omit juristic attempts against GPL. Check internet e.g. for SCO vs. linux etc.
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zookeeper
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Re: Yet another map generator [license discussion]

Post by zookeeper »

And to put things into perspective, we are talking about a command-line map generator for a niche game of which probably even most gamers haven't heard of, which at best probably amounts to a few hundred lines of code and which absolutely no one outside a very small subset of the people who have heard about the game would ever give a rat's behind about. No one cares about licensing of such works, and frankly there's no real-world reason to.

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pauxlo
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Re: Yet another map generator [license discussion]

Post by pauxlo »

Crendgrim wrote:And that's exactly what I tried to explain. :)
If he says that it's GPL, he must publish the sources. If he doesn't want to publish the sources, it can't be GPL. That's all I wanted to say. ;)
No. The GPL (like about every software license, open source or not) does place restrictions on users and "conveyors" (redistributors) of the software, but it doesn't restrict the original author of the software in any way.

This is, for example, why Wesnoth artists are allowed to contribute a finished PNG image into GPL Wesnoth without also contributing the original layered Photoshop or Gimp file used to create this image (and which would be the "preferred form of the work for making modifications to it"), and similar for music.

It might not be the thing which GPL was meant to be used for, and it might be not really clear to licensees what they actually can do now, but I don't see anything forbidding to license a source-less work with GPL.

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MetalKing
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Re: Yet another map generator [license discussion]

Post by MetalKing »

We (still) don't know if its sourcless. But without any lib (eg. glibc is GPL) you don't get a single character drawn on the screen. So he have to use any lib and at present we are allowed to wonder which. :)
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"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler." -- Albert Einstein
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Crendgrim
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Re: Yet another map generator [license discussion]

Post by Crendgrim »

pauxlo wrote: No. The GPL (like about every software license, open source or not) does place restrictions on users and "conveyors" (redistributors) of the software, but it doesn't restrict the original author of the software in any way.
[...]
It might not be the thing which GPL was meant to be used for, and it might be not really clear to licensees what they actually can do now, but I don't see anything forbidding to license a source-less work with GPL.
Well, does that mean that you'd have a program under GPL, without it being open source? First I also thought as you, but this put me really off.
(Yeah, great that this topic was split, so we can stay off topic :P )
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JaMiT
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Re: Yet another map generator [license discussion]

Post by JaMiT »

MetalKing wrote:(eg. glibc is GPL)
No, glibc is LGPL. Perfectly legit to develop software from it without making that software open source.

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pyrophorus
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Re: Yet another map generator [license discussion]

Post by pyrophorus »

Of course, JaMIT is right and btw Open Source and GPL are not the same license, and there are more, Apache for instance. And Zookeeper is right too. Who cares about it ?

I just want to say I'm deeply wounded by this discussion. I feel like if some cops were searching my home to find I don't know why, when I was only trying to share an idea.

Next, I hate to do this, but I think I must say here I'm a senior programmer (30 years experience in assembler, C++ and much more) in charge of managing development software in a healthcare software company. Licensing is an everyday problem to me as well as software robustness and security. And I'm not the kind of guy refusing to acknowledge what I owe to somebody else. The software I posted is all mine, excepted the RNG. If you want to verify the licensing, just type 'Mersenne twister' in your browser. And if you suspect me to use secretly I don't know what licensed software, take a look at ShadowMaster's generator. You shall see one needs only a standard libc to do this. This should be obvious to anyone with some programming skills.
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MetalKing
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Re: Yet another map generator [license discussion]

Post by MetalKing »

"of course its gpl but you can't get the source." you can see the joke, can't you? no source => no binary & no trust
"Sir! We are surrounded by our enemies!" - "Excellent ! We can attack in every direction!"
"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler." -- Albert Einstein
No Source - No Binary - No Trust!
Map Wesnoth Springs - The great War [200x120],Player=9

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zookeeper
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Re: Yet another map generator [license discussion]

Post by zookeeper »

He doesn't care whether you trust him or his program or not.

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battlestar
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Re: Yet another map generator [license discussion]

Post by battlestar »

If you don't trust it, don't use it. It's so simple.

Pyro made it, he can do whatever he wants with it.
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Crendgrim
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Re: Yet another map generator [license discussion]

Post by Crendgrim »

I don't want to be misunderstood: For me, it was never about "I'd like to see the sources", but rather about "it can't be closed source if it's GPL". I never meant to offend anyone, I mainly wanted to settle the "trust issue" down — seems that did not work out as I hoped. I am sorry if anyone felt insulted.
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