"trample"

[Elvish_Pillager]

Units should not be able to end up in terrain that they can not move into, regardless of the level of intelligence of the player.

I disagree. I think you can charge into a terrain you can't move in to destroy an enemy.

However, a unit could be disallowed from using a Trample attack on a unit in a terrain it can't move into...

[Darth Fool]

I agree that a unit should be allowed to attack units in terrain that it can't normally move into. However, I don't think it should be able to end up in that terrain. So I agree with your summation. Units not being able to use a trample attack into terrain that it can not move into would address that concern.

[Integral]

My patch already forbids units from trampling into terrain they couldn't otherwise move into. (or it should, let me know if it doesn't!)

Daniel

[Dacyn]

Trample seems like a violation of ZoC to me... so only skirmishers should get it.
Or we could just leave out the "moves onto opponent's hex" part except for trampling skirmishers...

[Dave]

Okay this is probably a stupid question, but...what does trample do exactly? Make an attacker who kills his enemy move into its tile, and then able to attack again??

David

[Sangel]

Trample seems like a violation of ZoC to me... so only skirmishers should get it.
Or we could just leave out the "moves onto opponent's hex" part except for trampling skirmishers...

It is a violation of zones of control, but of the opposite kind to skirmishing. Trample means smashing your way straight through the enemy line using unprecedented brute force. The unit unstoppable because of sheer size or power, rather than its slippery manoeuvrability.

[Dacyn]

he unit unstoppable because of sheer size or power, rather than its slippery manoeuvrability.

How can it bypass the ZoC of units it does not attack, then?

[Integral]

Okay this is probably a stupid question, but...what does trample do exactly? Make an attacker who kills his enemy move into its tile, and then able to attack again??

Sorry, I dropped the context. That's exactly what it does: the attacker moves to the former defender's tile, ignoring all ZoC constraints, and can attack again. Obviously this is powerful if the enemy has many weak units nearby; it also exposes the attacker to risk, though, since it's likely to end up surrounded by the surviving enemy units. (and you have no control over whether the trampling unit moves)

I've just finished adjusting my patch to make trample spend movement points (sort of), and it's attached. The rule with this patch is: once a unit has begun to attack, it may continue to attack and move as long as (a) it is victorious, and (b) it has enough movement points left; when it runs out of movement points, it can attack one last time, but it won't move. When a trampling unit has begun to attack, "[T]" is displayed next to its movement points to indicate that they can only be used to attack (not to move).

I still prefer free trample-moves, as they're a lot simpler both rule-wise and code-wise, and I think that the odds are strongly weighted against extended rampages. (remember: you have to KILL every single enemy, and in Wesnoth even a very damaged unit has a non-negligible chance of surviving)

This is not the final version of the trample patch based on movement points, because it has a big, gaping hole. The major drawback of trample is the same drawback that berserk has: you can't stop it. The trampling unit moves to the defender's hex no matter whether it'll be next to a near-death Dark Adept or a full-health Yeti. Unfortunately, since the trampling is now conditioned on how many movement points the unit has, you can stop the unit from trampling by just uselessly using up its movement points. This can be worked around by saying that "you always move to the defender's hex, but if you use up your movement points you can't attack again", but then we get into the problems that started this sub-thread, and frankly, I don't think all this complexity gets us much over the free movement I originally posted.

Incidentally, I think that "rampage" is a better name than "trample": unless you've played MtG or somesuch, "trample" probably won't make sense, whereas "rampage" is immediately obvious.

Daniel

[Invisible Philosopher]

The rule could be that a unit can only trample once a turn, and if it attacks again that turn it is treated like a normal attack.

If a unit uses a trample attack in defense/retaliation, does it move to the enemy's hex if it wins?

I think Rampage is a better name because it's more general: there could be a unit with this ability that's doesn't trample on its enemy, but moves to the enemy's hex anyway.

[miyo]

I kind of a like this feature... who is going to draw us elephant unit?

- Miyo

[Elvish_Pillager]

(and you have no control over whether the trampling unit moves)

The Saurian Beastmaster (the only trampling unit suggested!) does also have an axe, so it doesn't have to trample.

I've just finished adjusting my patch to make trample spend movement points (sort of), and it's attached. The rule with this patch is: once a unit has begun to attack, it may continue to attack and move as long as (a) it is victorious, and (b) it has enough movement points left; when it runs out of movement points, it can attack one last time, but it won't move. When a trampling unit has begun to attack, "[T]" is displayed next to its movement points to indicate that they can only be used to attack (not to move).

The unit will never have any movement points left, so it will never move.

I still prefer free trample-moves, as they're a lot simpler both rule-wise and code-wise, and I think that the odds are strongly weighted against extended rampages. (remember: you have to KILL every single enemy, and in Wesnoth even a very damaged unit has a non-negligible chance of surviving)

I completely agree.

Incidentally, I think that "rampage" is a better name than "trample": unless you've played MtG or somesuch, "trample" probably won't make sense, whereas "rampage" is immediately obvious.

And rampage does???? not to me... I think Trample is more intuitive, trampling is when you go on top of someone, and rampaging is when you... err.... charge around wrecking stuff?

@miyo: There is a suggested Saurian Lizardier/Beastrider/Beastmaster with this ability, and levels 2 and 3 have base graphics.

I'd like an elephant graphic too, and this would be cool for a Battle of the Pelennor Fields scenario.

[Dave]

IMO in some kind of 'Wesnoth mod' it would be cool if someone travelled far to the east of Wesnoth, and encountered some very different cultures, including a mid-eastern/indian style culture that featured heavy use of horse-archers and elephant riders, and the elephant riders could have trampling.

fmunoz and I actually did have an idea for a campaign like this at one point, as a sequel to Heir to the Throne, but we never got the idea off the ground...

David

[miyo]

There is a suggested Saurian Lizardier/Beastrider/Beastmaster with this ability, and levels 2 and 3 have base graphics.

Which I dislike.

- Miyo

[Elvish_Pillager]

Which I dislike.

- Miyo

I dislike elephants.

[Burnsaber]

How about war chariots? They could have trample....
(allthought it would be a pain in the a** to draw one, they are wide)